Some managers and dirs just do follow ups, just they pressure on developers to deliver data to meet deadlines. They didn't even know proper architecture, business, no proper direction to dev's and some even don't know basic git commands. I don't know how are they even surviving in this org.
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@qt Yeah just to echo the same sentiment as some of the others, nobody's saying there aren't good managers here. Enjoy it while it lasts, your situation here can always change on a whim. Today you might have a manager who cares about you, tomorrow leadership might decide to lay him off and to move you under one of their friends.
It happens more than you might realize.
@qt Glad you're having a positive experience. I felt the same way until about two years ago. The difference is like night and day. I used to look forward to going to work; now I just want to be put out of my misery. I think I may get my wish Thursday, no matter if I'm ready for it or not.
@rw This is terrible. It lifted my spirits to see that you at least have decent colleagues to laugh about it with. 🫂 Dealing with terrible management in isolation is the worst!
Unfortunately, this behavior exists in executives everywhere. It's one big scam. They're all in on it because they're all the same. Each just as morally bankrupt as the other. You guys don't get it. Those who make it to upper leadership roles at most companies are terrible people. Narcissism is a prerequisite for those roles. They know their ilk, and they can sniff out who will or won't play ball. In this climate, the veil has been lifted, and people are seeing what has always existed. Integrity doesn't make it to the top, and if it does happen to sneak in...it never lasts long. "It's one big club...and you ain't in it!"
@je it is there job. They are literally dictating how engineers should write software, what tools they must use, what technologies they must implement. That isn’t just passive management. And to answer your question, the software I work on requires my tech team to understand the problems in a hands on way. My team knows how to do the job of our customers but our customers don’t know how to do the job of our engineers. So yes, we do know the codes, we do know the business side because we make software for it and need to know it otherwise our application would be misaligned garbage.
Leadership in engineering has been insanely toxic and incompetent for some time. Nowadays they'll generate AI questions and answers for interview candidates (usually bad ones) and reject people because their answer wasn't close enough to what their prompt spat out, generate AI summaries of meetings that are flat out wrong and weren't fact-checked, use AI for their emails and their powerpoints and for writing viva engage post and for writing slop on linkedin. They use AI for fu--ing everything and aren't above average intelligence so they can't fact-check any of it.
But in the past, they would just tell someone who could rub together two neurons to come up with interview questions or even to do the interview. Before they would order someone else to take notes or to create their powerpoint for them. But it at least somewhat worked because the people they would delegate work to are leagues beyond them in work ethic and intelligence.
@s0 LMAO. Mine will p-e in his pants if he saw anything more than 4 boxes and arrows in a picture.
@qt lol your manager is an exception. MOST managers don't know the first thing about coding let alone provide feedback. The only feedback they can provide is for PowerPoint slides.
No insight on Optum, but UHC Tech is rotting from the middle. My Sr. Director literally copy-pastes diagrams from Google and screenshots from random meetings, slaps them in decks, and calls it his vision. We all see it. We laugh about it over drinks. But the joke's on us—we just bled one of our best DevOps leads because he couldn't take the micromanagement and the endless 'prove your value' theater anymore. This is how you lose real talent while keeping dead weight.
I always make sure to document how I code and share it with my manager. They are so helpful in giving feedback and sharing my wins with their leadership. Sorry to hear some people have a bad experience. Optum is the best place I've worked as a developer and so happy to be on my team.
@qc are you me? This is my exact experience!! Maybe we are with the same team reporting to the same loser.
My director even copies prompts let alone code. He wants us to all provide the copilot prompts every week (team sharing and cross learning!! ) then reuses them to create a bunch of slop and presents it to some executive as his own ”vision”... team is not even aware till those somehow surface somewhere. The executives now thinks all the team members are not needed and questions why people are needed. Instead of protecting his team, my director is destroying it slowly so he can get his kudos. Never seen this level of inhumanity anywhere. Horrible, really horrible what this company has become. Fire all the "directors, flatten the orgs, recognize and reward the ICs. Without them nothing will ever get done other than PowerPoint vision, strategy and roadmap. Unless they find a way to recognize the people doing the actual work and reward them, talent will drain slowly and only a bunch of crooks will be left behind.
My manager doesn't even schedule their own meetings.
Sh-t I'll take it one further. A CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER should know how to do basic git commands. Sh-t I've met some who can. Like the fu-k you mean they can't take the hour it takes to learn that plus the absolute basics of any programming language?
Managers of software engineering at this company, take 1 out of every 2 and they won't know even that. That's fu--ing wild and it's weird that there are re--rds playing defense for how stupid our engineering leadership is.
@je I wouldn't expect a pi-p to know how to give a good blowie but I imagine he has some understanding of the trade.
We're not expecting directors to be good at software engineering. This thread has all been about them not even knowing the most basic sh-t.
@gm For the same reason they don't need to know nursing or medical coding. It is not part of their job. Do you know all of your ICD-10 codes as part of your job?
@as just imagine for a moment that the leader of a law firm doesn’t actually practice law. Imagine if the director of accounting has never seen a balance sheet. Imagine if the executive chef at a restaurant has never cooked.
Why would you think engineering (one of the most complex high brain power tasks) should be any different. If a director doesn’t know how to do something or what a good idea is, they won’t be a good director. In very rare circumstances it works but for the most part it doesn’t as evidenced by how horrible this companies tech side operates. If Mr 100x ever in his life programmed something, he would probably wouldn’t implement the brain dead ideas he tries to force onto everyone.
My director is a KING of copy paste. He gets access to other SharePoint repositories, GitHub etc. then uses copilot and presents it to VP, SVPs from business teams who are all d-mb enough to believe that's his work. I have seen entire images literally copy of pasted, ideas iterally reworded via copilot and presented. He has zero technical skills, let alone any architecture/design, cloud or Devops knowledge yet is a director of IT. All he does is use copilot all day and generate more and more AI slops and share it on our daily calls and team chats. It's exhausting to see this level of incompetence and deceit.
It appears they got on here and admitted it. It's not "what you say" its "how" you say it. They can steal your work and ideas because they do so in ways that they consider "appropriate". They even told the person that made this post that this is why they were "stuck" in their role despite ability.
Trust, it's really not that way other places.
Remember, there's a difference between things that are unfair and things that are illegal. If things are unfair, go some place else and excel. If things are illegal, or you think they might be, speak to an employment attorney. If you are unsure, speak to an employment attorney.
Stay. Document. Hold them accountable. Leave a better tomorrow for future generations. It's not always about a job title.
Going on a hunch but telling someone they are "stuck" in their role despite ability doesn't sound legal. Speak to an employment attorney. All of you for that matter. Strangers aren't going to get you justice.
@bq Are you me? A director stole code she asked me to write on when I interned here and claimed it as her own. She's now a senior director.
Most of the directors are yes people with no skills who just steal work
I’ve had directors steal my work and use as their own. I’ve also had them give my work to others. They get all the credit and say I don’t excute. Because they never told me to and stole it!!! It’s a major problem at this company. The younger employees who are directors don’t know what they are doing!
@b8 what do you mean by "you people"?
You people sound like a bunch of id--ts, What’s the point of this post?
@ab can you expand on what you mean by "how" you say things?
@a6 I had managers here steal my work and give to weak, ill-equipped people, one of those people is now 75 years old and still in the company. His skills were medieval and he couldn't map out a process. As Karma would have it, the mgr who gave him my work was let go for other reasons. The person who was given my work presented it as his own, but once they asked questions, he couldn't answer and the querent forced him to reveal the true owner of the work lol! These types of things happen here. Favoritism and Cronysm!
@as While you Mgr and Dir don't need to know the nitty gritty to do your job, they should know enough to not only value but also support you. Then should know what reasonable expectations are, and not put their teams though unnecessary, undue pressure! Managers who knows absolutely nothing about the job, suk! Those who know too much, enough to micromanage the heck out of you, also suk. It's a sweet spot and a decent manager would show balance on this!
Why would a director need to know basic git commands? That's not their job.
@ab too bad rewarding people for playing office politics "well" only leads to things like lost contracts to companies with no business in insurance and layoffs. Everyone else pays the price.
Best thing to do is to get promoted yourself. You sound like a true leader stuck in a reportee role. One thing you should know, you can get further up any corporate ladder with the understanding of HOW you say it is more important than WHAT your saying
@OP right? Pretending to know things you don't gets rewarded. It's wild. The people in tech leadership roles are in for a rude awakening if lay offs happen. You can't just steal people's ideas, lie about what you know, and force people to act like you know what you're talking about any place else. On top of just not being a good person a very rude awakening might be in store.
Because it’s not about the work you do it’s about the way you present to leaders and who’s your friends are. Anyone and BS a spreadsheet to make numbers go in your favor. They play a game that has nothing to do with building better experiences for our members or other employees.