Thread regarding Honeywell International Inc. layoffs

Here are some valuable lessons:

1. ) No one is going to look out for your best interests, except you. Businesses are in business to make money, not give you alot of money. So, no, they won't volunteer pay raises and bonuses and promotions. If you expect your boss or your coworkers to look out for your best interest, you will only become frustrated and bitter. Plot your course. Plan your future, don't let your future plan you.

2. ) I agree with the earlier comment. The best raises and promotions in my career occurred when I left one company for another. That is pretty much the unanimous story I hear from everyone I talk to. The days of staying with one company for your entire career are long gone. Think of how much staying in one place limits you! That limits your knowledge growth, that limits your personal growth, that limits your income growth. Move! It stretches you, matures you, grows you. Especially when you're young.

3. ) In your younger career, stay at a company 3 - 5 years, then move on. As you get older, those periods will become 5 - 10 years. This will produce steady, enjoyable career & income growth.

Worked for 3 of the large aerospace companies during my career. The best raises and promotions were the two times that I moved on to other companies. The first time I made that move was after about 5 years in the industry so you're right on track when it comes to questioning your future.

A couple words of wisdom from a retired old dog that never was laid off by the industry - 1) The level promotions don't mean a thing with regards to your career. They created these out of thin air about ten years ago to keep people stuck in a Band 3 position while still thinking somehow they were getting somewhere. If you don't move into a Band 4, none of these 'cute' titles and levels mean a darn thing. 2) You'll know if you're valuable to the company if you keep getting asked to take on new rolls with titles and pay as part of the move. That happens earlier and earlier now. I would think that if you aren't being groomed to move up by about age 30, Honeywell is not the place for you. Take your experience at that point and go make your own future rather than relying on strangers.

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago, 4-5 years experience right out of college at Honeywell and I left for another opportunity and received a $30k raise. Much easier to be promoted or increase salary by switching companies than wait for your small raise every year at Honeywell, especially after 4 years you won’t be considered “job hopping.” A lot of companies are hiring right now too since their hiring freezes have been lifted from last year. If you are young and talented you should have no problem finding something, especially if you’re looking for something while still having a job

@6kyg, that is some of the best advice ever. I'm old and finishing at HON, but it is NOT the same company I hired into.

“Management will not teach you anything, because they do not know anything. “ ... well said. I work for a new company now and my new boss also can do (or did) my job. Looking back is shocking to think that the majority of managers I had at Honeywell had no idea of actually how to do the work (not even high level flow chart logic).

Here is my two cents...

Been at HW since 2013. Held multiple positions, now in band 4, no direct reports. Had multiple bosses, some good, some alright. However most of them are very similar. They manage to their leadership expectations. You will have average reviews, below average raises. Management will not teach you anything, because they do not know anything. There are very few, competent managers, and most of them are in engineering. But even they have to sip the cool aid to say afloat.

On a personal level. I went to multiple interviews outside of HW. All say I am too expensive, without me mentioning my salary requirements. Or the offer is close to what I make.

So I take into account what I am gaining and loosing. I have a decent boss at Honeywell. Currently I work from home. I will ride it out until something exciting and worth the change will come along. Then I will bail.

The key is to talk the talk and pretend to be a HW futureshitter, but do the bare minimum so you do not get the boot.

No matter how great your boss might be. If he/she is cornered by their leadership to put you on a pip or to do something their way, you will feel the sh– flowing downhill.

So look out for yourself and only for yourself.

You shouldn't be concerned if you're young but you should be looking for something better. Honeywell is known for treating workers like a pile of c-ap. The sooner you leave the better for your career.

OP Here: I've been in the small L, not the big L, for the years i've been here. Honestly, its 100% the company itself that isn't a match for me. Constant procurement issues, customer nuances, colleagues underperforming, having to babysit technicians and operators, there seems to be no end that shows this company takes it's contracts serious.

A word of advice from an ex-Honeywell Engineer, always try to step aside, mentally, and think of yourself as your own "Professional Agent" much like the VP's and above have working for them.
So, if you were representing yourself in the marketplace, what would you say that you're worth, and is your present employer giving you the opportunities and compensation that you should be getting?
If not who would give you that work? Being at Honeywell is a life of always being told you're not meeting up to the "standards," whatever they are for that day. You're never good enough, and it will wear on you.
Going to a company where they value all employees is well worth a cut in pay to achieve.
Be bold and stand your ground. They need you, more than they'll admit.

Before you think about leaving, be careful where you go if you like being an engineer. Alot of companies will tempt you to think that the requisitions are technical when they are not. Keep learning, look around and you will know when the right opportunity comes your way.

4-5 years is a sweet spot to move. If you put 10+ years on the resume, you will be asked... “You have been with Honeywell so long, why are you leaving now?”. I got riffed after 13 years and get this question in EVERY interview. 35 years old is the new 45!

@wje
I'm sure that you have great technical skills, but you likely can thank your early success to your first manager for deciding to have you develop specific critically rare skill sets, and going out of their way to provide you opportunities to shine on high visibility projects.

Oh, well in that case, I have not eliminated any employees (yet), though I definitely have been tempted to eliminate a couple people.

FTE= Full Time Equivalent. An employee.

@2wwd
What's an FTE? If by cost cutting, you mean completing tasks within a reasonable timeframe, while eliminating defects, then sure. I'm cutting costs.

Low cost is the secret to longevity in today's corporate cult. Once you get expensive, you get removed.

OP, being in Block 3 is not especially good. It means that while you are good at getting things done, you are not perceived as exemplifying the HW 9 Behaviors well. After 4 years you should better understand the importance that is placed on these BS qualities at performance evaluation time. The Behaviors are one axis of the 9 Block matrix, so they theoretically account for 50% of your rating.

Take your talent for getting results to a company that will appreciate and compensate you fairly.

@1pkr, I'll hazard a guess as to the cause of your singular success. How many FTEs have you eliminated through your work? Cutting costs seems to be the only thing that gets positive LT attention.

To the young and concerned fella

If you’re young you shouldn’t really be concerned as you have time to explore what else is out there to find what you really like and dislike. As you’re concerned then you obviously don’t like where you are, so explore outside and try it out

To the orig poster, 4 years is the perfect time to switch to a different company, unless of course you absolutely love your current job.
And pick up and extend your skill sets
Honeywell will be around in some form if you look again while working somehere in the future
Ignore the noise, think long term where you want to be doing, and plot a course to get there.

A word of advice, it doesn't matter if you do your job or not. It matters who you align with and who likes you in leadership. Take Madsen for example, his entire team has not performed yet they have been promoted because he likes them or they are willing to nod yes to everything he spews. This is not my opinion, I witnessed it regularly first hand in his leadership meetings. His style is exactly what HW wants and needs to cut costs.....invoke fear in everyone and make everyone wonder if today is their day...get out and work for a company with true leadership, you'll thank me.

I have been with the company for 24 years and am treated like a contractor. That's the Hon model - we are run by finance guys, numbers guys. All they care about is cutting expenses. I Switched companies 5 times in my life and those were my biggest raises. Only reason to stay would be to build a pension - there aren't any anymore, and if you had to stay a certain number of years to keep company match in a savings plan. I recommend leaving and also leaving town to see another part of the country at a young age. Ask yourself what you like to do and where you want to live and go for it.

Oops, not even 4 years...3 years and almost running the place...you really are something!

@wje

Congratulations on your constant promotions. Perhaps you are exceeding what were originally low expectations and were the hidden gem for that week's offers. Your experience is not normal, by any means. Once you are 45 y/o, it takes much less to keep you there than it does to keep a 25 y/o with 4 years experience there, and that in the end is probably what you're experiencing. Hopefully you are as sh–e-hot and valuable as you think you are, but after only 4 years, hmmmm...

Weird. In the last three years I have had a cumulative total of 30% in raises, and in the process of my second promotion within the last two years. I'm not in any level of management. Nor, am I any kind of yes man. I am capable of doing my job, and doing it well. Some of you might want to consider the truth of what's holding you back.

Your only leverage is that you are at the lower end of the pay spectrum, so a RIF would have a smaller effect over-all on the company’s bottom line.

Conversely, the cost of severance for being RIF’d is lower so that moves you up the list.

It is just a matter of time, you make the decision, not HON.

I advise all interns/ new hires- wait around till you get one promotion and a few skills and bolt to maximize your potential. This is not the 70’s and early 80’s where there was some loyalties by both employee and employer.

Wall Street will soon realize that the future of increased dividends and stock increases will sputter due to lack of investment in existing products and poor M and A decisions and move on to greener opportunities.

No matter how much lipstick, it’s still a pig with lipstick. ( no offense to swine in general, they do have more character than ALT)

Most of those I worked with in the aerospace and defence industry who graduated after 2000 have permanently left that industry.

Now would be a great time to leave. You have valuable experience that you can put on your resume. Other companies will recognize that and pay you appropriately.

Google smart criteria, have them put your promotion goals in that form

Ask for clear requirements from your manager on what you need to do get a promotion. Your manager will become flustered and start speaking in tongues to avoid the truth: they aren’t giving you a promotion. Easiest money is to move to a promotional opportunity outside of your group or outside of money hell. People are willing to spend more when they NEED something. You’ve been put on a deferred maintenance plan.

The best thing you can do for your career is to find something better.

So you have been there 4 years, got a promotion and say you have been skipped over for promotions? Two promotions in 4 years is unheard of. You have pretty unreasonable expectations.
Changing teams and switching programs is a very positive thing at this point in your career.
You will gain far more diverse experience than if you were pigeon holed into one task set.
That said, keep gaining experience but keep your feelers out. Take an offer that is even close to your current pay. You'll go up the ladder faster by moving. You'll probably be 6 to 8 years to get promoted to Eng 3 if you stay where you are. Especially if you are in the elbow.

Block 3 is in dreaded "elbow" so you may be on a PIP. It's your life and career, so do what makes sense for you. Leave town for a new opportunity if possible.

Always....always....always..look outside of Honeywell for a better job. I was with Honeywell for 40 years and until I left could not get the market value for my position. No matter what c-ap they put forward in their town halls...Honeywell puts Stock holders on the top of their list...usually the only ones on their list.. Besides...you might as well make as much as you can in that dysfunctional situation since their is a good chance your job will end up in India or Southeast Asia in the near future.

Sorry to say, you have no leverage with this company. I spend 13 yrs with aero, block1,2,4 employee throughout and was RIFed in April and I was a Director. Leadership sees you only as a cost and that will never change. As the recovery pushed further out on the horizon, the cuts will continue to protect share price. Leave and try something else, you will not regret it, I've never been so happy to have moved on. If you do a pros and cons, I'm pretty sure you will know what you need to do. HW is not what they used to be and really do not offer employees much to make it worth staying. Do yourself a big favor and get out of the toxic culture and daily threat of losing your job, be proactive because its going to happen.

Hi, I am also in a similar situation except that I am with Honeywell for 3 years. Also got promoted to a 2 this year. I have seen quite a few of my batch who have left, and are doing so much better. Tempted to go for better opportunities.

"Skipped over for promotions"
So after after 48 months, when do you think you deserved a promotion?

It never hurts to look outside. 4 years experience is a great jumping spot. Another company will value you much more than Honeywell.

Interview at other companies to see what you should actually be getting paid and if HON does not match in terms of pay/quality of work-life balance, leave. I would also be worried if I was in the ”L” during this time...
I left recently (lack of raises/promotions/constant fear of rifs) and am very thankful for a better life.

You have no leaverage. Get all the experience you can while you look for a company that values their employees.