Thread regarding IBM layoffs

this is #gold

@jf There’s nothing brilliant about 99% of the people who come on H1B. The system was designed to push down US tech wages and shift the cost of training onto someone else’s dime (Infosys, TATA, and other outsourcers). It benefits corporations, outsourcers, and people on visas, but it does not benefit US workers or the country as a whole. Since US workers vote, and the line has now been crossed, the political class is scrambling because they know whoever takes action here will scoop up millions of votes. The logic is upside down, but that’s how it works.

The other issue is that India takes 80% of the visas, which distorts the demographic balance and fuels resentment. If India has 15-20% of the global population, and assuming talent is normally distributed, then the numbers don’t add up. A fair system would not result in 80% of visas going to one country.

I’ve worked with some incredible Indian colleagues, but I’ve also seen plenty who were nowhere near "brilliant" - enough to make me question the entire process. And after more than 10 years at Accenture (I left a few years ago), I’ve seen pretty much every shenanigan in the book, so I speak from firsthand experience.

@17w

Great post. You are absolutely correct.

@jf There’s nothing brilliant about 99% of the people who come on H1B. The system was designed to push down US tech wages and shift the cost of training onto someone else’s dime (Infosys, TATA, and other outsourcers). It benefits corporations, outsourcers, and people on visas, but it does not benefit US workers or the country as a whole. Since US workers vote, and the line has now been crossed, the political class is scrambling because they know whoever takes action here will scoop up millions of votes. The logic is upside down, but that’s how it works.

The other issue is that India takes 80% of the visas, which distorts the demographic balance and fuels resentment. If India has 15-20% of the global population, and assuming talent is normally distributed, then the numbers don’t add up. A fair system would not result in 80% of visas going to one country.

I’ve worked with some incredible Indian colleagues, but I’ve also seen plenty who were nowhere near "brilliant" - enough to make me question the entire process. And after more than 10 years at Accenture (I left a few years ago), I’ve seen pretty much every shenanigan in the book, so I speak from firsthand experience.

@ja
I miss the culture that existed before.
What we have now is mush or rotten.

@jw

If I may... (and it's ok to disagree, of course)

Brilliant people have always been able to come, beginning with Albert Einstein and so many wonderful entrepreneurs that helped build America.

The issue is that for the past few years (and particularly the past 4) some bad apples were able to come (via open borders) and a worker visa systems that in the past decade or so was played by IT sweatshops from a particular country (which is affecting the well-being of an entire tech industry, healthcare industry, etc... of course, not the only element, but an important one). Nobody is able to come outside of mostly India and a bit of China anymore, and many brilliant folks from outside those countries are being left behind.

The idea is NOT to prevent 'anyone' from coming, but to be selective and careful about who is coming for the benefit of all of our society, all of us, we the American people.

That's all.

Brilliant people from other parts of the world cannot come and work here

For the next few years they won't want to. Meanwhile many of the brilliant people we already have are leaving.

@jb

I posted about it (see below) and I also put some information about the specific companies that take most of these visas.

So, when people say "oh, you dis cri mi na te or are me an to people from I n d I a", nope, far from it, we just look at data, data, data, data.

Brilliant people from other parts of the world cannot come and work here. So that's why we post about I n d I a n ssss all the time. Duh....

Some more exact numbers from the USCIS report:

• 74.5% of all H1B petitions come from India.
• 72.6% of APPROVED H1B petitions are from India. By way of comparison, China is #2 at 12.5% and Canada is #3 at 1%. Every other country is <1%.
• 66% of H1B petitions are for "Computer-Related" occupations. However, this understates the total because some IT jobs are buried under Engineering (9.8%) or Administrative/Managerial (combined 6.5%).

Regardless of the original intent of the H1B program, it has morphed into almost solely being a pipeline of cheap IT workers from India. That accounts for 3/4 of the program and it needs to be eliminated ENTIRELY (then we can look at the remaining 1/4 and determine which represent truly unique skills that can't be sourced locally, probably less than 1/2 of the 1/4).

@gg

IBM is a shthole, which makes Alvind a shthead
Rob the Slob is still the Numero Uno co-----cker at IBM.
The tub of lard, Krabanaugh is still cooking the books but taking lessons from Rob to upskill as a co-----cker.

It's been a few months since I checked this website and oh boy have things gone downhill at IBM. This new CEO Arvil seems like a dam fool. The place sure has become a shithole since I was there. Of course the whole world's gone mad with all this AI. Things used to be better. And simpler! Oh and as that one young fella's always saying, that Rob Thomas sure is a co-----cker. I didn't like him back then and I sure don't like him now. Hang in there everyone. Bye bye.

@e0

if it looks like a moh ron, thinks like a moh ron, speaks like a moh ron and acts like a moh ron, then it must be Alvind the moh ron!

@e2

This is perhaps the BEST analysis I have seen in a very long while.

One thing to add: HR departments are a joke and complicit, HR people are one of the most hypocritical in the corproate world, because they talk one talk, but they always walk another walk. Yes, I know why, but how do they sleep at night? CHROs are glorified and overpaid i_d_i_o_t_s

What changes , this will be Same or worst than $10 registration brought by same administration which benefited offshore/ consulting firms only.

How it will bring jobs back or hire US citizens instead of H1b if underlying numbers remain same ?

Let’s say, first round only 30 companies submitted 1000 candidates with 250k salary. Now 84000 cap left and USCIS will conduct second lottery, this time all companies submitted candidates with 70k same like before and lottery gets full. Basically there is no cap changes and no changes to number of lottery conducted by USCIS. So what was happening with single round will continues for many rounds but nothing will change underneath.

In 1990, when H1b law passed by creating fake Y2K fear, there was no offshore. Now 99% companies using offshore directly or indirectly using vendors. This is possible due to joint employer and independent contractor rules only. Same current administration modified it so it will be easier for companies to cheat. We don’t need H1b or any temp visa at all if offshore or remote is allowed. Current IT working model uses these temp visa folks to ship jobs offshore rather helping US economy.

H1b, offshore and almost all temp work visa like h4,L2, OPT , CPT, TN connected to each other.

These extreme layoff in IT is due to change in Lottery/ H1b rules only. This rule will enable companies to ship jobs offshore rather than need of H1b on US soil. It’s fact that this wage issue in H1b reported on many many congressional review reports starting from 2003. Nothing done for 22 years by design and it’s way too late now. Entire H1b and all temp work visa must be suspended immediately.

Companies will hire one H1b/ l1/tn person in US with $200k and move entire department offshore. Earlier IT companies were hiring H1bs with $70k * 5 =$350k, now they use $100k to hire 4 folks offshore from remaining $150k and still save $50k. How it will benefit US citizens? This is why it’s hard to find jobs for freshers in USA these days. One report says 5million jobs went offshore since Jan 2025.

Simple two or three clauses law will fix all.

• Any job must be given to US citizens first including 2 years mandatory job training if needed. ( including offshore jobs too)

• Any temp work visa holder must be paid 3 times more than comparable US citizens with mandatory surprise site visit every 3 months

Other way to fix is to bring in entrance exam like USMLE does for medical field. Companies can not sponsor candidate unless they clear strict 3 stage entrance exam which eliminate fake degree and offshore experience game. This is must to see candidate is really helpful as consulate interview is joke like 15 to 20 minutes with same common questions like do u have job? Which city ? Direct or consulting firm etc..? Seriously, US citizens give 3 to 6 rounds of interviews for same position but H1b guy give just 15 to 20 minutes kindergarten type interview. Consulate must introduce 3 to 5 rounds interviews and must verify what candidate says during each of them before issuing visa. Basically any work visa or staying in USA for more than 1 month, must clear multi stage interviews.

There are many other ways but simple, fast and efficient is to use existing rules and laws until we have common sense laws passed by Congress.

@dq

Who ever thought AK would be a good choice? He looks and talks like a moh ron

Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 1: "Oh, it seems like all these Silicon Valley companies are going with CEOs from India."
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 2: "Oh, yeah, do we have one of those around?"
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 3: "Oh, yeah, we have the one that is going around talking Cloud and Red Hat stuff"
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 4: "Did he achieve anything? Do we know?"
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 1: "Don't know. But he will make us look like Google, Adobe, Palo Alto, Microsoft. So we pick one of those?"
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 4: "Oh, OK, let's go with that. We'll look like we are back and innovative and going with the times, right?"
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 3: "Totally."
Board of Directors (Dinosaur Club) 2: "Deal. He will do the outsourcing like other do too, so we Weill look so cool."

At the end of the day, it’s all about money and stocks performance when the stock market weighs trillions of dollars; and when pension funds and investors control the boards of directors, employees are then no more than just numbers that can be replaced. Corporations need to have access to a large pool of young cheap hungry workers to make them compete fiercely.

In addition, cheaper H1Bs help transitioning job outsourcing more easily to India and other cheap countries using native language during countless hours without complaint and resilience; at the risk of deportation if they don’t outperform.

American corporations are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbyists in Washington DC to defend, promote and grow H1B program that will only expand because there is too much at stake.

So H1B program is a win win situation for corporations, for stock investors, but not for American peon employees

Enough of people from India coming here. How about people from Europe? Oh that is right. Alvind is a racist effing bigot

I hate to say it, but:

Indians consistently receive the largest share of H-1B visas, often accounting for over 70% of approvals each year. China is typically the second most common country of birth for H-1B recipients, though the number is significantly lower than for India. While a wide range of countries receive H-1B visas, the numbers for any other single country are very small compared to India and China.

Why does this happen? Indian companies mastered the way to use the H1B system.

Top Indian IT companies by H-1B visas in 2024:

Infosys: In the period from April to September 2024, Infosys was a top recipient, with 8,140 approved H-1B visa beneficiaries.

Tata Consultancy Services (TCS): During the same period, TCS secured 5,274 H-1B visas.

HCLTech (HCL America): HCL America received 2,953 visa approvals, placing it among the leading beneficiaries as well.

Cognizant Technology Solutions: Although now headquartered in the US, Cognizant was founded in India and consistently ranks as a top H-1B employer. It secured 6,321 visas in the April–September 2024 period.

Wipro and Tech Mahindra: These companies also received thousands of H-1B visa approvals in 2024, though fewer than the top Indian firms.

The H-1B visa program is rigged by IT staffing and outsourcing firms. For example, these firms use multiple applications to crowd out deserving candidates. They inflate their H-1B applications using fake job postings and resumes.

There are tons of articles exposing this.

Former Staffers Say India’s Biggest IT Firm Was Gaming the US Visa System
bloomberg.com

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2025-02-17/india-s-tcs-misclassified-managers-to-skirt-h-1b-rules-former-staffers-say?embedded-checkout=true

The point of it all is that originally the H1B visa program had one intention, but India (yes, India) mastered a way to rig it and now it became something that wasn't supposed to be.

That's the reality, folks. This is based on plain data.

All the H1B visas go to Indians first, Chinese second (by far) and then everyone else (by a very minimum).

American students spend $250K or more for a college education and then they get replaced by H1Bs: what a cool system!

This entire legal immigration is joke. It’s based on who pay more to political campaign. Doctors can charge $600 for 5 months visit but they have problem with US engineers. If we really need anything , we need doctors and nurses in rural America only but doctor’s union quickly shut down even tele health for GP visit too but millions in IT and other field can work from offshore and steal our jobs. Why ?

Entire legal immigration is to suppress wages only. That is why fake GOP/ RINO / MAGARINO don’t want to fix joint employer and Independent contractor rule which is used to do all dirty games in employment practice. This is root cause and solution for all problems we face in USA. Companies able to do all dirty games due to this two rules only.

That is why all major new visa categories added during GOP presidency u name it like H1b, F1, l1 etc..

Reality is , 95% f1 students , 95% H1bs’ and 99% offshore locations from same countries( India / China / Philippines/ Mexico/ Canada ) . Funny, wait period of green card is more than 10 years is for those 4 countries only.

It’s like sun and moon ( day and night) happening at the same time. Sorry it’s not possible at all. I can not argue that we have problem with education system because those folks are coming in millions from those countries where corporate America is importing millions on H1b saying we have skill shortage due to poor education system. Funny , isn’t it ?

It’s like Iran need nuclear energy where they have too much crude oil which is 500% cheaper and very easily available. What is indent there ?

US politicians must change their behavior as people will not tolerate any longer.

JD, used fiery words against H1b when running for senate seat but did nothing ( not a single word ) after wining election. Infact people all over internet shared photos where he and his best buddy Vivek talking about H1b during their collage days. JD’s wife supported many organizations who heavily sponsor H1b. Tennessee house guy block every strict policy against immigration by voting NO and claiming he is MAGA with some weird reason but caught having fiesta party with Indian community last week that shows all.

Basically, politicians have elephant teeth. One to show and one to eat.

What a shame.

Basically

American tech and non tech companies need a large pool of fresh cheap blood to replace expensive dinosaurs; that’s why H1B program exists; it will only go bigger even with T.ru-p

OP, you are being replaced by younger, cheaper, hungrier H1.Bs

@a5

We need to look into what universities are teaching, so they educate people aiming at usability in the job market.

We also need to make sure universities don't privilege foreign students over Americans and they don't receive money from the likes of Q_a_t_a_rrr, hire professors that teach kids to not love the good USA and teach mmm_aa__rr_xxx ist bb ss instead.

How come so many kids with college education have such distorted ideas?

@OP

I wish many American born kids would stop wasting their money going for degrees that are (...forgive me for what I am about to say...) useless, like all this DEI stuff, social cr-p science studies, x or y continent studies, advanced poetry in the bathroom studies, community organizing and mar_xi_st touchy feelings studies, journalism with a lot of bias studies, influencer like the Kardashians from a to z curriculum, the world is going to end due to climate change so I want to be c_r_a_zy like Greta certification, how to be a filmmaker so that nobody watches Hollywood movies anymore because nobody came up with a good scrip or idea in 30 years and we live out of Seinfeld and Friends replays studies, and many other "very substantial" programs.

They then get into debt and some po_li_ti_ci_an_s come with a plan to forgive their choices, I mean, their student debt, because poor folks, they can't land a job despite of their such wonderful degrees in higher education and choices, but it's everyone else's fault, so the rest of us need to pay for it.

We wouldn't have such talent gap if American kids would make more employable choices.

IMHO.

It's about time that American students were given priority for jobs (their parents are US taxpayers) instead of the lies and BS from tech companies like IBM, Microsoft, Meta, Google etc. which make it a priority to hire foreign graduates.

International students should be sent back home after they have completed their studies. There might be the exceptional few but by and large, they should not be offered any US jobs. We have enough qualified grads who need IT and tech jobs in the US. The international students could work in the local company subsidiaries in their home countries and that usually works out just fine. Almost all the tech companies have offices in places like China, India etc.