With AI coming, should engineers unionize? I believe upper management is going to continue to squeeze engineers and with knowledge worker tasks being transferred to AI agents... it makes the work of an engineer procedural rather than design. That's very much like factory work.
I don't see any other way to spread the wealth. The alternative feels like "to get squeezed".
Organizing isn't easy, but it's not impossible, even in a Right to Work state like Florida. The first step is to contact a national that most-aligns with the work you do. I suggest the Communications Workers of America (CWA) who have a long history in aerospace and defense.
Click the link below, fill out the form, and a rep from the national office will contact you directly:
https://cwa-union.org/organize-union-your-workplace
At least one location has engineering unionized. Search for "l3harris union engineering" scroll past all the corporate sites and you will see one.
can someone please hire @h6
@gt - Max Headroom? It could get much worse, as I am thinking about an employee running around the review office with the door closed and the humping robot from robot chicken chasing you.
@h6 if somebody at L3Harris in Palm Bay doesn’t take this guy up on his offer. Then you only have yourself to blame, when you’re staring at no money in the bank, a mortgage due and your wife leave you, you should’ve made the best of this opportunity.
@gr Back in the 80's we were threatened with our jobs, they were gathering on Palm Bay Rd. (Semicondutor) and handing out information.
I have a solution and I’m willing to volunteer myself to mandate change. I retired from the workforce just last year and used to work for L3H for over 10 years. If L3H in Palm Bay, FL would hire me back, I would fight for the union to get in and if I got laid off because of that, who cares I’m retired anyway. Who wants change for the better that can get me hired back in? I will do all the heavy lifting and no one ever needs to knows that you hired me back for this mission.
@gc; the employees had better unionize now before they’re talking to Max Headroom, their AI boss for their performance reviews.
@fn great idea, but who is gonna lead this fight to unionized Florida sites? They better have a lot of internal fortitude and not be afraid of losing their job.
@fn I agree that the Florida should try to get the union in, especially in the Palm Bay, Melbourne area, but the employees tried in the past and it failed miserably so I just don’t see it happening in the future.
Yes. We CAN AND SHOULD unionize.
The statement that Florida or any other state can be non-union is incorrect. Your right to unionize is protected by federal law.
But there are hoops to jump through. First you must contact the union that you would like to be represented by. They will arrange an off-site meeting to speak to interested parties. They will give you union membership cards as an application to join. If more than 50% of your group joins, The Union will petition for an election to be held on company premises and supervised by the national Labor relations board. If a majority votes yes then the union will represent your group. The company is compelled by federal law to negotiate your terms in good faith. They cannot refuse to negotiate. Any effort by non-union employees to disrupt dissuade or intimidate members from voting or discussing Union business can be prosecuted at the Federal level. Since unionization is a right protected by federal law, and L3 Harris's bread and butter are federal contracts, it is doubtful that the company will want to alienate the government in any way. If L3 Harris were to resist unionization in any way, the publicity alone would send elected officials running for cover. Having said that, there is a caveat; if your unionization efforts are unsuccessful, L3 Harris and it's minions will hunt you down and terminate your career. Not only will you be released from L3 harris, it is doubtful any defense contractor will hire you again. Unionizing will not solve your problem. Leaving this dysfunctional company will.
Before retiring, I worked at the Clifton site in the same Union under four different company names.
ITT, Excelis, Harris and L3HARRIS .
I can tell you for all of those years that the most recent iteration of this company is pure sc-m and not worth the trouble. They are an abomination .
Hi OP here, the difference between AI-assisted work and automated workflows is context. AI is context aware (lends to the attention algorithm) whereas automated workflows are not. It used to be that the engineer was aware of the context and provided feedback to decision makers on the best path forward. Now decision makers can consult their AI just like any other individual and no longer rely on the context the engineer presents but what the AI presents. And the engineer is also forced to incorporate the AI's context in their decision making and discussions with decision makers to produce outputs.
The homogenization of context isn't present with automated workflows. Automated workflows used to be silo'd to the engineer that came up with it and only when it was ergonomic could it be reusable by others and thus affect the decision, otherwise, the engineer was the expert that the decision makers relied on.
And AI offers one additional features. Feedback. Not only can it do the work of automated workflows but you can feed the outputs to improve the automated workflows. Design is effectively offloaded to the AI.
The only benefit is the engineer guides it. Supervising it as it creates for them. The landscape has gone through a metamorphosis and its still not clear where everything lands once the dust settles.
But all this productivity and lack of AI tools at the company with the expectations as if we have those tools, that's the reality that's not acknowledged. Those expectations affect how they allocate resources and make decisions on labor. Since it affects our work-life balance it makes sense that there should be a voice in the engineering disciplines to speak up about the shifting and loose sand.
Unionizing also squeezes…
The bell curve becomes narrower and flatter. The best engineers get paid less and the slackers get paid more.
It’s a good way to ki-l innovation since ingenuity isn’t rewarded so much as simply the passage of time.
You get a bit more job security but not much more esp if company folds the operation.
The proliferation of Ai means the company has a blueprint for your daily work. And if you’re not using Ai management is asking what “work” you are doing.
Think of Gen Ai as the RTO version of an Anti Mouse Shaker. The purpose is to keep you busy and learn from you, rather than appear to be busy doing nothing.
I just came across an AI that integrates into solidworks....haven't tried it yet but I plan to. AI has been in engineering for a long time. Autorouters for PCB layout, that was the beginning. And it worked for some things but not all. Same with AI for engineering, its always going to need a human review.
I am glad I retired from L3H last year, timing couldn’t have been better. People should start thinking about early retirement or working for companies that will treat them better, anywhere, but L3H.
@OP, good point, most people realize software design is going by the way of AI, (and soon), but also electrical engineering, mechanical engineering and a lot of other computer aided design may also. Think of the cost savings that that transition will provide.
I can visualize one big building just doing AI design work with every other human input design center in the country being closed down. Also, I don’t believe that the classified proprietary programs personnel will be saved from AI. If anything, AI should improve security.
With Boston dynamics new robots being able to do touch labor assembly, manual labor jobs may also be affected. (See the latest 60 Minutes segment).
Florida is non-union, so I don’t think unionizing will ever happen there. That may be a prime site for the big AI design building. In the states that unionizing could happen, the company is so greedy, they will just close those sites down and move the work to Florida.
I feel very bad for people that lose their jobs because of AI and won’t be able to support their families in the near future.
It looks like the movie Terminator was not too far off of the mark, but instead of actually terminating people it’s just gonna terminate their jobs, but in the end will have the same effect.
Some people are going to try to vote down this post, but instead of using their effort for hateful frustration, they should try to accept the reality and work on a solution to stop L3H and AI from taking their jobs.