I heard today from a HR source but wanted to ask here if true that management is now rethinking the 8 hr period. Can anybody confirm on this chatter? No trolls pl
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Could be a way to reduce West coast workers. Most I know log in 5-6 am their time to be on calls with India and East coast teammates. By the time they drive in, there's not 8 hours left in the day without them putting in 12 or more hours.
@dp 100%. Because of my role, I split time at a few locations. The grumbling has been the same at each: no one understands the mandate and there is general frustration about its implementation. This is a common theme regardless of role, title or level. When the economy rebounds and the job market favors the employee, I would expect companies offering maximum WFH flexibility to thrive. Wells stands to lose a ton of talent when that happens.
Yeah, they will be "all over that" soon enough. People have been talking about what a waste of time RTO is for many teams because their team isn't at their site. You need to look at that criticism like a sl--e ball NYC exec. There's no moment where they are like "dang, they are right, maybe I should rethink this..." No, they look at at criticism as something they can use to their advantage Colocation is the next great excuse for firing tens of thousands of people. It starts next year and if employed in the most sinister way possible, it could be used to downside just about everyone.
Compliance is irrelevant. Time in office is irrelevant. They want you gone no matter what you do, or don't do. It's a matter of time for all of us. I've made peace with it at this point. All I'm worried about is ensuring I get my severance. I'll play the game and when the employment reaper comes knocking I'll smile and sail off into retirement.
FHY.
@dp That’s called trauma bonding
What's funny in all of this is I hear a bunch of conversations in office about this. Nobody is happy with how they're doing this. Pretty much a common opinion that it's all bullsh*t how they're going to measure this.
Also noticed that a few folks are around later in the day, but office (my floor) is generally pretty empty by mid-afternoon.
There's next to zero chance they're rethinking and certainly not this early on. They're going to get a rude awakening when people refuse to be flexible on their hours and time. My boss already told us-- refuse early meetings if you want. If you do take them, block out time so that you can get to the office to meet the requirement. At least one person had a talking to b/c they weren't doing the 8 hours in office-- they had a few hours of early meetings then went in late morning or early afternoon.
People are going are either going to get in extra early to deal with RTO and early meetings or they're just going to refuse to do early meetings.
I'm going to continue to do selective early meetings, but some I will just decline and refuse to show up.
You want to start the clock, when I'm on the clock-- fine. But if the clock doesn't start when I'm on remotely, then sc--w you company.
No chance. Your HR person is just wishful thinking
@by I haven't set an OOO message, but I now have 1-hour OOO "appointments" on my calendar immediately before and after my workday. Which is 8 hours long. People will try to double-book you if you have a "busy" block, but hardly anyone will book against an OOO block, and if they try I'll just decline with a "Sorry, I am out of office at that time."
I am no longer logging in early on WFH days, or staying late on any day to finish up that one last thing. It can wait until the next workday, whether or not I have a bus to catch today. If I can't have any flexibility then I don't feel obligated to provide any. :)
@cx Same. I've worked for Wells for a decade and have never been colocated with any team members. Was fully remote until early 2024. I have no idea of the names of anyone sitting on my floor. I commute 45 minutes one way to Chandler to take teams calls all day. Sometimes I get up at 4 am to commute if I have early calls (I'm working on setting hard boundaries on this, but I can't turn on a dime). Working for Wells the last few years has become like being a protagonist in a Kafka novel
@c7 no you aren't and no they aren't
@c7 PLEASE keep us updated on this. I was fully remote for a decade before COVID and I have 0 team members in my location [Charlotte] so I go in just to sit in a focus room by myself and join calls.
It's the C suite that has been stealing from the company since their arrival, so...yeah.
Dir. here from CIB. No, they are not rethinking it. They are going to ramp up enforcement from what I’m hearing. Don’t know what that will look like, but I have “warned” some people on my team about the 8hrs. I did hear that layoffs will be mostly done by late next year, not sure how accurate that is but it did come from a MD in HY who has been solid with his stuff in the past.
My weekly average now has been 39-40 hours a week. I've always worked 60 plus hours a week for the last ten years. Not anymore. I haven't opened my laptop outside of working hours since this tracking BS started.
If they are rethinking it's because those that worked more than 8 hours are now ONLY working 8 hours.
@cf They don't care about production going up. They care about increasing attrition. Your misery at this policy change is the response they were looking for. The cruelty is the point.
Now I doubt very seriously that they will get the attrition they're seeking given the current state of the job market. Companies like WF at this point are cargo culting RTO as it was a few years ago when there was much more job mobility. At some point it will dawn on them that they'll need to shift tactics to actual buyouts. Only a question of how deeply they want to scar their remaining employees before giving up
@bj I also coach youth sports. Yes, I know it’s a privilege to have that afternoon flexibility, but I’m a consistently high performer and my production has never been called into question.
Coaching and mentoring youth has actually had an indirect positive impact on the Bank’s reputation, which they stand to lose with people like me having to hand off coaching duties. In 2016 when the Bank’s name was at rock bottom, I still proudly informed parents that I worked at WF when they asked. Over time as I developed relationships with players and parents, I saw their perception of the Bank change, based largely on my being a decent human. “Well they work there, and I trust them. Maybe WF isn’t all that bad.”
Those ties to the community stand to be lost over a silly policy based on some senior leader’s whim. I hope those at the top of the house are happy with the outcome. Production will not go up. Mark my words. But WF’s reputation can most certainly go down.
How about working overtime in the evening?!
I hope they are reconsidering. Malicious mandates deserve malicious compliance.
Managers need to be able to manage their teams without all of this garbage coming down. Hard workers deserve flexibility and trust. That is how most of us earned WFH before 2020.
If i so much as get a side eye on hours i will get a lawyer and request the entire companies badge swipe data. I have a great case they are going after 50+ year olds. I'll need everyone's badge swipe data to run analysis for the compare.
@bx I fully intend to do this. I will likely set an OOO message when I log off each day to set clear parameters around my availability.
law of unintended consequences, you want to go after the coffee badgers that is fine, but when you start nitpicking over an hour or two, when you take away my flexibility I will take away your flexibility and you will get me for 8 hours per day and that's it, no more early mornings, late nights, or weekends.
Enforcements gonna get more draconian in order to root out all the deadbeats who have been stealing money from WF the last few years. Once they are all gone things will probably return to being somewhat normal. You have the coffee badgers to thank for this crackdown as no other industry would have tolerated that kind of behavior for even one pay cycle, much less years.
The whole thing is comical. I work in a line of business with a global footprint. A standard office day for me is: wake up, reply to overnight emails while eating breakfast, drop kiddo off at school on my way to the train, reply to more emails & prep for the day while commuting, arrive at the office, work 6-6.5 hours, reverse the commute home (still taking calls & responding to emails), coach youth sports in the evening, catch up on emails after dinner, unwind for an hour, then lights out. All told I am working/available for 9-10 hours each day, but suddenly this isn’t good enough.
If they want 8 hours in a chair, that’s fine. Those other 2 hours that I use to make sure things are progressing overnight will go away though.
No one is rethinking it...new reports will be pushed further down to managers so they can coach employees. The noncompliant will have consequences.
Let’s hope so. Just one more decision with no foresight by this leadership. Debacle straight ahead! Can’t wait to see what this degrades onto.
It has nothing to do with work. I've never worked under 8 hours in a day since going to salary. Not once. Ever. My problem is the grade school bullsh-t. This company used to trust and respect it's employees. They gave us flexibility and we rewarded that trust by getting S done. Now, in what is nothing but a blatant push for 'voluntary' attrition by complete hack execs, we are treated like children where some mo--n in NYC is going to dictate every minute of our schedule, and reporting with more holes than swiss cheese is going to convict us of doing something "wrong" so they can avoid some severance expenses.
These evil execs will do literally anything to avoid paying you a severance. They want you gone. Resignation, termed for fake cause, dead, they don't care, so long as they don't have to pay. They have a visceral hatred for you, and your compliance with this nanny BS will not save you. Unless you're willing to become a contractor or relo to India, they don't care.
Wishful thinking. If anything it’s being reinforced, not rethought
I doubt it that quickly.. though several companies such as AT&T and Samsung..both that went 5 days RTO have recebtly stopped with the tracking software they were using, cuz it was inaccurate and ki-led morale.
Maybe they end up relaxing it or is something they never fully enforce. It ki-ls managers flexibility, and is stricter than any pre covid policy
@a1 - they said no trolls. Cant you read?
Some people are just lazy AF. Is 8-hours really too hard for you?!?!?
This is why layoffs are happening.