When recently getting told I would likely be laid off later this year, I conveyed to my manager that I was smiling and happy. They told me the last time they had to give that speech the person was elated as well.
Speaks volumes about the work culture Charlie Scharf has created.
@jx its partially about limiting liability but it's also about competitiveness in the job market. All of the big banks and other firms in the finance offer similar severance in in defined policy. I think Charlie would love to gut the severance policy but he can't do it without also gutting our ability ever again poach or recruit talent from competitors. Maybe long term once enough of the labor force has shifted to India this won't matter, but right now it does. Which is why the c-suite has been pursuing backdoor gutting severance payouts, by stack ranking and manufacturing reasons to fire people for cause.
It was mentioned that many companies don't offer severance and WF does. It's always about profit and limiting liability. Think of severance as a payoff, proverbial hush money. When you sign those documents for your severance, you agree to basically keep your public opinions to yourself. Even though you no longer work for the bank, you agree not to do or say anything against the bank in any public way that could make them look bad.
I was smiling during my layoff call..... I was drinking mimosas also.
The timing of the meeting indicated to me what was coming! (vague early morning meeting)
Fantastic!
Cheers!
@fw Finally! Thank you for taking the time to put together this logical explanation that makes perfect sense. All the best to you!
Speaking purely for myself - I'd rather keep my job. The reality is, what Wells is doing has become kind of a contagion among the CEO class - tons of employers right now are doing forced PTO, heavy handed monitoring, overshoring, mass layoffs. I think Wells is particularly toxic (6 straight years of layoffs is just absurd), but they're not alone. If you've got time invested here, the risk/reward of going somewhere else that might end up just as bad is pretty high. And then you've got zero severance cushion, and you're at risk of being last in/first out. If you've been around long enough to earn a severance package at Wells, you probably have other things like PTO that would be difficult to replicate.
But, the thing is, it's not up to me. Wells has made it clear that they intend to continue laying off thousands of US workers. And from what I've seen the past few years, being well-liked or a good performer is not going to protect you. I root for a package in part because it's a way of embracing the inevitable. While I'd like to keep my job, a layoff with a severance package per the current policy would give me a clean break, and an opportunity for significant downtime between jobs. That's not a bad thing.
Two things can be true at the same time. You can want to keep your job, while acknowledging that's unlikely to happen, and finding ways to be happy about it if it goes the other way. Its a way of being at peace with either outcome.
Sorry if that's not black and white enough for you
@fq Bingo! There you go! With the job market in the toilet right now why are so many actually posting their wishes they are next? Just does not make any sense waiting around for a layoff that may never happen. What is so difficult to understand?
@ep No one here has mentioned “Just get another job if you don't like it” except you. It is great to see you note just how d-mb it is in this horrible job market for any employees actually asking to get a layoff message! You make perfect sense mentioning your kids and how difficult it is to work at an employer you’re not happy with. All the best to you!
@fm because the job market su-ks di-k right now. How many times do people need to say it? Are you dense?
@fm I can't speak for @em but I am @OP; I've been hunting intently for a job ever since the stack-ranked IM I got in January. Prior to that I was more selective, because I've been here since before the turn of the century. I've outlasted every management team's bad decisions, worked with wonderful people, and been though more reorgs than anyone should ever have to. The current level of micromanagement is sociopathic. It's obviously designed to make everyone miserable and give executives a reason to get rid of employees.
I fit the target profile of someone who would be laid off under the current combination of location strategy, term-length, and age. On top of that, this executive team has been threatening me with RTO (lol, nearest core loc is hundreds of miles away) and location strategy since they got hired. Why shouldn't I hold out for that golden PTO package that I spend more than a quarter century giving years of my life, parts of my kids' childhood, and probably a chunk of my physical and mental health earning?
I like my manager, I like my coworkers, I like the work I do/did. It's above my manager that the sociopathy is present.
Sure, it may not have been comfortable this past 7 years. I have tried to make an exit, but why ruin a good thing? The benefits package is hard to match coming in as a new employee, and I knew it was coming, all I had to do was keep putting out good work and wait. Now it's finally arriving (after two false-starts, mind you).
If you knew you were going to win the lottery, but had to wait a few years to do so, would you throw the ticket away?
@en The only reference to severance payouts as some kind of handout comes from you. Of course they are absolutely a company benefit. What is questionable is the number of employees willing to waste time actually asking to be laid off so they can get this severance payment. What happens if the layoff never affects them?
@em Why endure working under leadership described as crazy and not smart at all? Waiting around and hoping for a layoff to get a severance payment just seems odd. How long should a disgruntled employee wait around waiting for a layoff that may never come?
@ej if it's a handout, why is the severance policy in the "Benefits book"?
For two years in a row, I have been told "You will likely be laid off by the end of the year." This is some Dread Pirate Roberts sh-t.
@ej when was the last time you applied for a job? "Just get another job if you don't like it" is some boomer-a-s advice given the current condition of the job market. I ain't happy to be working at WF but I got kids to feed
@ej Severance payouts are documented in written policy. One of the reasons someone might have chosen Wells as an employer is specifically because their generous severance policy offered some peace of mind. Trying to gaslight people that this is a some kind of handout rather than a benefit earned through literal years of labor is some sicko sh-t.
@ej please don’t water this down - this leadership is crazy and not smart at all. People worked/and still pouring their energy to keep this company going and they earned packages. Since packages are bonus no one asked WF to provide those, but company offers them.
@bz You listed five things you claim to be asking for. Your settlement closing states a ridiculous claim for a financial package earned simply for showing up to do your job. Your closing also lists a desire for a sabbatical to get away from sociopaths running the company. Just curious. If you truly believe those five listed items and you also believe you are working for sociopaths, why continue working there? By staying employed at a company enduring the alleged issues you state and asking for a layoff severance that may never come the question then becomes who is the sociopath? The leaders or the employee?
@bz Perfectly said!
Getting severance was icing on the cake. I took a year off and landed an even better job with an amazing culture. WF is so toxic. You know it but it takes being away from it for good to fully see how bad it really is. Thank you WF.
@b7 what this employee is asking for, is an employer that isn't actively trying to get rid of me. An employer that doesn't view its severance obligations as a liability to dodge. An employer that isn't maliciously seeking opportunities to make the working experience worse in order to "encourage attrition." An employer that's investing in the country that's its history is threaded through. An employer that's building for growth instead of managing for decline.
That's what I'm asking for. What I'll settle for is the financial package my years of service have earned me, and a sabbatical to find some place to work that's not run by sociopaths
Or it could be indicative of a good interpersonal relationship and/or dynamic between the manager and their employee and the realization the now the hammer has fallen that the stress of waiting for said hammer is over. No more worrying about forced RTO and/or being offered locations that are all in higher cost-of-living locations compared to where the employee currently resides.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
So unless you worked 22 years at WF you won’t be getting a full year of severance. Why do people think 1 year of severance is owed to them? Lazy a$$ mudafockers don’t deserve it. Go find a job
@ax Many employees posting messages on this layoff site are actively seeking layoff notices to collect severance benefits. Why equate it to abuse, divorce, kids? Apples and oranges. When employees get what they ask for it stands to reason they are happy and smiling. Not too difficult to understand.
@ap Would you interpret the fact that someone is happy to finally be divorcing their abusive ex, as evidence that the ex was doing a good job? Creating a positive culture? If the kids are still stuck with the abuser after one of them gets out, do you think they're happy about it?
@am I see your point but if you look at the number of messages that come in from employees wanting a layoff to collect severance benefits it’s a win/win scenario. CEO finally has smiling and happy employees as they are getting what they asked for, shareholders are smiling and happy with improved stock returns, what could be better than this work culture created by the CEO?
@ak they were smiling BECAUSE they were getting laid off not because they work at WF
Have not been consistent follower of this layoff site but am getting confused. Has this CEO changed the horrible negativity employees have been writing about here? Smiling and happy workers sounds like a pretty good work culture to me. Congratulations to a CEO getting the job done.
@OP Its well earned. enjoy it when you get it! good luck
@a4 Framing someone expecting a benefit that's laid out in written policy and earned through years of service, as someone seeking a handout, says more about you than it does about them. Don't you ever get tired of the taste of boot polish?
You wont be challenged to find people willing to accept a cushy multi months long severance package at any company in the US. The fact you've already got your hand out means nothing.