Thread regarding Humana Inc. layoffs

I came to Humana many years ago with a wide range of skills and two decades as a nurse. I have been very successful in all my previous nursing positions with a proven track record of success in all my roles, including leadership roles. I was laid off in November and have applied for numerous internal positions since then, all of which I had all role essentials and all role desirables. I received emails from all but one of them nearly immediately after submitting the applications. One phone interview so far out of easily 25 positions I've applied. Just had Montage phone interview Friday so I haven't heard anything. I am really disappointed. There are new jobs posted daily and they are only up 2-3 days, so you need to look all the time or positions will close before you can apply. My recruiter is very nice, but, if I get a denial email 15 minutes after I submit an application, he is not able to help me any further in pursing that position. I am sorry you have a recruiter that isn't as helpful. One suggestion...if you see a newly posted job, get the req # and IM your recruiter. Give that person a heads up you are applying & see if he/she will reach out to that hiring manager, then make sure you apply later that day before it closes. Good luck, this is hard for everyone. Work at home is my only option due to various reasons and when I lose this job, I will have nothing. Hope you have a better experience.

Wow! 4 interviews for internal positions?!?!?! That's an accomplishment in of itself. Best wishes!

I applied to several positions that I qualified for and didn't get not 1 interview. The recruiter that was assigned to help me was not much help at all.

Uggh, sorry poster. To have left a good job in the summer and then get hit with this - but you never know, sometimes things turn around when you least expect it. They really do.

Good luck to you!

I was hired in September and my last day is Jan. 2. I have interviewed for 4 positions internally and have received rejections on all 4 of them. I realize there are a lot of others trying to get the same positions but it is discouraging to say the least. I have applied for many other positions outside of the company and I am kicking myself for leaving a good job only to be jobless 45 days later. I am not looking forward to going back to a night shift position which (by the way) I haven't even received a call back for an interview as of yet. It is almost December and the length of time it takes to actually get hired on will likely put me in to January or February before I can even start a position. I have been pretty optimistic to this point but I am getting really nervous.

Maybe this is why other health insurance companies steer clear of unlicensed health coaching? Too much grey area.

They are called personal health coaches, after all. Health is the topic being discussed with members, medical background or no medical background. Of course that would get a bit worrisome.

Was let go first round along with much of my team. None of us were successful at internal rehire, but after some time working elsewhere, I can say this Thanksgiving I am grateful for no longer working for this company.

As for the side-debate about PHC’s, I can confirm that we were pushed hard to give medical advice, and coach would pull up calls and point out where we could have used approved Humana resources and quote directly from them during call. It happened because our coach didn’t think members would want to keep picking up just to do surveys; we needed to “add value” to the call. At the time, beating other teams’ “success rate” was very important to our coach.

Agreed. I began reading this expecting to gain insight on how realistic it is that I will regain internal employment. There are about 487 jobs posted in the Career section, many are leadership, director, pharmacist, or medical director positions. Very few are nursing and many want you to be in the Louisville office/area. I have applied to all the jobs for which I qualify, only to be turned down without an initial interview. It seems obvious to me, you were chosen for a RIF which means they don't want you around anymore. If they really wanted me, they new the HCS renewal roles were opening up & could have worked to move me in a role without even being part of the RIF. I am getting tired of bothering to apply internally. All the false hope is killing me

LOL

Since many of us adults need coffee to stay focused, can everyone drink some and then get back to the question at hand about hiring? No one is getting sued haha. But it’s a very cute that people have gone there.

WHO HAS GOTTEN HIRED INTO ANOTHER ROLE AFTER LAY OFF?

I am thankful this holiday for platforms like this.

Little to no chance any PHC will be charged with anything. As for a lawsuit the lawyers will go after the deepest pockets which is Humana. I would highly recommend the disclaimer that you are not a licensed medical provider and therefore the member should always consult a doctor.

@QlEaX5J-2ugx Good for you. These people pee me off.

Again I’m not concerned about being charged with doing anything wrong as it relates to my job as a PHC. Your opinion doesn’t matter so do what you were hired to do and I will do the same. Your entitled to your opinion so carry on and I will do the same. Like I said earlier take your concerns to upper management and let us know how that work out for you.

"I totally understand where everyone is coming from. However, I have a family to feed, mortgage, and car note, and etc. Therefore, if Humana wants me to do x,y,z I will do it until I find another job."

So you know it's wrong to do it, but you are going to anyway because Humana told you to do it? SMH. that car note will be the least of your concerns when you're being charged with practicing without a license. You realize it's a misdomeaner at best, a felony at worse right?

This is a really interesting discussion. I have read every post and can see both sides for sure. It does seem to come down to lack of clarity combined with disregard for ethics on Humana’s side.

I am a PHC and when I was in training, they used football analogies and told us our job was to “pass the ball” to the appropriate referral. What I was told upon hire and what I am actually being told in practice are two different things.

I am uncomfortable with much of it at this point, and looking elsewhere. Without giving away who I am or where I worked, I will just say that my prior employer was very clear and vigorous about scope of practice, while Humana seems passionate about something else entirely (numbers).

I totally understand where everyone is coming from. However, I have a family to feed, mortgage, and car note, and etc. Therefore, if Humana wants me to do x,y,z I will do it until I find another job. Again they are paying me to do a job and that's what I am going to do. In the meantime, I will continue to look for other work for because the culture of the company is not one I want to continue to be part of. I wish everyone well!

I have a master's in business management. That degree means squat in healthcare and doesn't give me any magical authority to practice beyond my license.

PHC’s make sure you have everything regarding your role in writing. If you advise a member something that causes injury I have no doubt Humana would throw you under the bus. Seems like a risky practice regardless of the level of education.

It's not about bashing Phc's. It's about the fact that PHC role seems to be manipulated into doing things they are simply not licensed to do. I am a nurse. Not a doctor. As such, I would never prescribe medication. I understand that I am not trained to do so, nor am I licensed to do so. If Humana thought they could skirt a grey area and manipulate me into doing it i know they would in a heartbeat. And I'm not disputing that many people in the PHC role are highly educated, but they are NOT properly educated or licensed to be providing health education. I don't care if you have a PhD, if you are not licensed then it's against the law for you to be giving health education. Period.

Wow. Excellent post, below poster. I think you hit the nail on the head. A toxic combination of factors.

All, in the long run, bad for the members. Members trust us. They are not aware of these shady factors and pressures that taint each contact.

The reason this is happening is due to people without health education telling PHCs what to do. HAH continues to push the boundaries of ethics just like they did with enrolling people that never wanted to be in these programs anyway but made RSs get their numbers. Then refused to let PHCs let them out of the program. Now in the supposed guise of quality, they force PHCs to set these specific health goals that may not be appropriate. PHCs send out health information that may be contraindicated all the time, based on one conversation. But PHCs don’t have all of the knowledge or information to make good, informed decisions. And if they don’t do it they are chastised & get poor quality scores. It’s not their fault, it’s what the job has become & how they are being measured. Then add job loss pressure on to every single call. Not a good model. No wonder it’s struggling.

“I am not bashing anyone's opinion, however, everyone can't be correct.”

The problem here is none of this should be opinion. It’s not the PHC’s fault - different PHC’s are being told different things. That is the fault of leadership. Communication is lacking, clarity is nonexistent.

What exactly is the PHC role in 2018? If there is no concern that a push for care planning will lead to more medical advice from non licensed associates, there should be. The real problem is nobody is on the same page. Expectations vary from team to team. This leads to confusion and too much grey area related to scope of practice.

Well, sound like someone has it figured out as to what PHC's can or can't do maybe you should report concerns to someone and share your knowledge as someone that has first hand knowledge as to how the process should flow. I am not bashing anyone's opinion, however, everyone can't be correct. Again Humana is an organization that hires specific skill sets for specific roles. I understand some individuals may advise members to do certain things, in my opinion, this is a gray area and I always tell members to follow up with their doctor for guidance since I am not licensed or clinical. But like I said before I will document in a care plan when the time comes. I can't be held for responsible for doing so as this will be a process that all PHC's will be doing per company policy. I have no problem with it and I am not concerned. I do hold professional liability insurance. Anyone can sue and if I am ever named in a lawsuit while employed by Humana just know I am a small fish in a pond and Humana is the big fish and since I am an employee performing my duties as trained for my role, I am not practicing outside of the scope of my role. Finally, don't assume all PHC's have limited education many like myself have education beyond that of a Bachelor's degree. For the clinically person that know so much about what a PHC should be doing I suggest you take your concerns up the ladder and let us know how that work out for you.

With all of the member movement this year, I have seen notes by PHC’s giving awful health advice.

One that made me cringe was when they noted in a call outcome, with a member who reported to the PHC that they were a knee replacement candidate, “member would like lose weight. advised member to set a goal of exercising on the treadmill every day.”

The member is making plans for a knee replacement and you have them thinking they should be starting a treadmill routine? Maybe they should talk to their doctor to learn what exercises are contraindicated prior to a knee replacement? Couldn’t that be a goal in itself? Ugghhh.

People are going to get hurt.

@QlEaX5J-2fqd you need to do some research. It is not legal for unlicensed people to give health education. Same reason a CNA in the hospital isn't allowed to educate. You can refer someone to talk to a licensed medical person if something is reported out of normal parameters. But not educate.

So your coach is telling you to practice outside your scope...and you're okay with that? Do you think Humana or your coach is going to stand up for you if you get charged for practicing without a license? No. They are going to throw you under the bus and then say "the policy says...." legally, nonlicensed staff cannot educate. No matter how big Humana is, they don't get special exemption from that law.

Giving medical advice and providing health education are two very different things. Health education is within the job responsibilities of a PHC. Giving medical advice is not.

Yes, it depends on the coach. I’m a PHC and also have had our coach point out missed opportunities to offer health advice from healthwise- not to mail material or task CHE like we used to, but rather pull it up during the call and offer advice, like “some foods recommended to avoid with diverticulitis are x, y and z...”

I’m a PHC and I’m going to chart however Humana wants. They pay me to do a job. Therefore I’m sure the company know what each role set can or can’t do. In most cases as long as you are working under a clinical person in a specified role you are able to document accordingly.

I'm a HCM and I've gotten members on my roster that were previously managed by a PHC, and several of them have charted medical education. Not all, but I would say most that I have received have.

I’m a phc and my coach has reviewed my calls and has found missed opportunities to review healthwise during calls and offer advice. He has said things like, “when the member mentioned her nighttime leg cramps, you could have looked that up in healthwise and told her about magnesium deficiency, proper hydration and side effects of statins.”

I have no medical background. Maybe different coaches recommend different approaches.

PHC dont give medical advise. They connect members with education and resources to manage care, act as a liason between members, providers, resources. Some PHC have license, some have done medical social work for many years....i think many people assume what the different roles do but have no clear understanding. Some of that is due to lack of clear structure even within a role.....

I don’t know why Humana has laid off so many phc’s. They just don’t fit in with 2.0, I guess?

Stop with the fear mongering about PHCs. I have it on good authority they are structured into HAH in 2018 just as they are today.

Why has Humana laid off so many PHC's with not only licensure, but with advanced degrees, then?

Well in Humana’s defense, it doesn’t like PHC’s will be around past first quarter 2018.

Humana already has a bad name, poster. But yeah, I know of no other health insurance company that allows for unlicensed care management / care plans. Saves Humana money.

It still astonishes me that PHC’s are able to give health advice without a license.

Also I had read here they will be developing care plans? This is going to give Humana a bad name.

I THink one o& the issues is the lack of licensing for PHCs , which limits the job opportunities, as well as increases the competition. If humana is saying there’s 1400 jobs you’re able to apply for, that doesn’t mean you meet criteria and desireables, but you can apply....and if you could be moved into another position, it probably would’ve happened....it’s the licensing issue and competition....how many CMs and PHCs were laid off, how many hcmss and ches? Total? That’s your competition

The HSO regions are hiring nurses and getting a high number of internal resumes. There are case management jobs which would fit well with HAH experience. There are UM jobs that require previous UM experience.