Thread regarding Honeywell International Inc. layoffs

My philosophy take any money as soon as you can and as much as you can. You and your spouse can still both enjoy it. Pensions are first thing to go if company ever gets into financial trouble. Plus get money while younger not oldet, more time to use it.

to 6tvod: Sounds like you really need to get a specialist lawyer involved, although I will comment that there might be a subtle distinction between changing beneficiaries when you retire versus changing them once pension payments begin. The various Honeywell pension plans have many permutations, but if, for example, the pay outs were based in part on your wife's age as well as your own, then changing the second beneficiary after payments begin gets very, very tricky and may not be feasible if the new beneficiary is a lot younger than the pensioner. Still, take it all to a lawyer who is knowledgeable about pensions and maybe for a few hundred dollars he/she will review the paperwork and give you an opinion. Good luck.

Question, I have a 75% / 100% pension plan and it says in the papers I got from them 20 years ago when I started receiving my pension that I can switch primary beneficiaries from my wife to someone else as long as it is done before my wife or I pass on ( and yes I have her permission) we have a disabled child that is listed as secondary beneficiary but we wanted to make her the primary beneficiary so she can receive it as long as she lives. The papers we have say we can switch this if done before my wife or I pass on, but when I called the retirement center at Honeywell to get the address to send the papers to change beneficiaries, they said that it could only have been done before I started to receive my pension (20 years ago) and that even though It doesn't say that in "my" papers its in their bylaws ( and they wouldn't tell me if that was their bylaws 20 years ago when I signed up.) My papers don't say that, they just say I can change it , So do have a legal right to insist they change this?

Good post

A previous statement on my situation said " You signed something that you did not understand. "

Please re-read the entire post. The totally of the plan was not given, I fully understand what was written, the problem was what was NOT WRITTEN. My lawyer pointed this out to them. I read what I signed and he did too and on appeal, they admitted that they did not detail all the terms. They said it was my responsibility to figure it all out. This was not introduced as an "annuity" it was a performance contract. They had performance and I had performance. It has nothing to do with the changing of beneficiary. They no longer have the ability to complete their performance, thus the contract is empty and as such I should be relieved of my agreed performance. I did not place my death or my beneficiaries death on the Craps table at Vegas but was treated as if I did.

jzb, you are correct that you cannot name a new beneficiary. The pension payments that include two people are structured exactly like a purchased annuity without inflation protection, which is why a company, not just Honeywell, wants to know the ages of both people in order to use the standardized life expectancy tables to calculate the monthly payment based on the expected survivorship of the two people considered together.

In this discussion, you are not very clear about "pension". It appears that you are talking about the life insurance or annuity insurance benefits. I am receiving a pension every month for working for Honeywell. I did not pay any premiums in order to get this monthly pension. I signed up for such that if I die, my wife will get 100% of what I am getting. What happen if my wife dies before I do? I believe that I will continue to get what I am getting, but I do not think I can name a new beneficiary for this monthly pension. Any comments?

In most community property states, joint and 50% is the default payout plan and requires spouse to sign agreement if a different plan is selected.

Agree, that is just the way it works. I opted for a joint survivor benefit, knowing that the benefit amount while I'm living is permanently reduced when compared to a single annuity, no matter who dies first. These plans effectively allow you to insure against the employee dying first and leaving the spouse with no income; the cost of that insurance is the difference in benefit amounts between this type of plan and a single life annuity.

Perhaps one could buy enough insurance with the difference in benefit amounts and end up with a sizable life insurance payout at some point that would make this a better option in the event the employee goes first, but the longer both the employee and spouse live, the more expensive this option becomes. In your case (forgive me if this sounds unsympathetic to your loss), but your situation represents somewhat of a worst-case scenario for the insurer because they now have to continue to pay the higher amount for the rest of your life, whereas if your wife were the survivor they would pay only the reduced benefit. All you can do now to maximize the situation is to live a very long life. Sympathies for your loss and best wishes to you.

Yes the previous posts are correct and you have signed an irrevocable contract. It's a buyer beware situation and you better know what you are signing like any other contract.

Yes! I believe you. That is the way that all annuities work if you select the survivor option. It's not rocket science, it's risk transfer, life insurance, and actuary tables. You signed something that you did not understand. Get over it. I am very sorry that you lost your wife.

I retired from Honeywell last year, and for years prior to selecting my payout it was made perfectly clear to me that the payout would be lower for as long as either me or my wife lived if I selected either 100% or 50% survivor plans, whether or not my wife proceeded me in death. It is the same as purchasing an annuity, except the payout rate was higher for the pension.

Really great post, very accurate and detailed... thank you!