As a mid level manager I’m not going to pretend that I know 3/23 is a huge layoff date. I’m just not that important to be ‘in the know’. But I am going to give you some simple facts. First, RTO/WFO or whatever you want to call it is about one thing and one thing only. See how many people quit (no severance) and how many people don’t comply and thus get terminated (no severance). It saves Wells a ton by not having to pay them out. Second, you can’t treat employees differently. That is an HR nightmare. So if they require employee A to RTO but not employee B because they live outside the magical 40 mile radius it causes a huge problem. So how do they fix this? Layoff the ‘remote’ workers that live outside the 40 mile radius. There is no doubt that effective work can be done from home (I.e. not everyone has to be in a office to be productive). This is more about Wells simply doesn’t need the headcount of so many employees. The ones Wells can require to return, they will. The remotes will be let go because all it takes is the retuning employees to ‘raise their hand’ and state they are being treated differently because where they live. Third, if you were hired pre-Covid for a location, let’s say Des Moines and you were told during Covid that you would never have to return to office again and would always be remote you are in trouble. Let’s say you moved to western Montana because you were told you’ll always be remote. Well here’s a news flash. Your ‘home location’ in the end will be considered Des Moines. And since you reported to the office pre-Covid Wells will require you to report to your office. Now you can either commute from Montana (ha), or you can move back so you don’t have to commute, or you can non comply and get terminated. Choice is yours. Forth, is your position is getting diluted (some of your responsibilities are going away or you are training/letting others, India comes to mind, do parts of your role) your position is in jeopardy. If Wells expects less from you it basically means that A) they don’t need you that bad or B) they are going to find a cheaper labor force to do your role. Finally, all the terminations, quitting, layoffs, branch closures, having non customer facing employees in hub locations, etc. is all about saving money and shrinking the footprint. Wells doesn’t need locations on every corner. It isn’t the 1950’s, 60’s, or whatever. Most banking is done digitally and that’s only going to increase as the years go by. If it was your business you’d be reducing unnecessary expenses too. So being upset about it is pointless. Find a role that is needed, don’t be remote, and keep your head down. Or don’t do those things and accept you are going to be laid off or terminated.
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My question if this is true, why do they keep hiring so many people? There are so many positions open, so if RTO was really about reducing headcount then why not stop posting so many jobs and hiring?
There's plenty of people at wiseman that have nothing to do with mortgage.
@sap SA as a growth site makes no sense. It has a huge campus with pretty much 100% home mortgage. Even analysts are support for HM. There are a slim minority of people that support EO/CSBB. Why would we GROW any further when, if anything, we would maintain by hiring/moving people after lending losses? It makes no sense. Maybe you misunderstood and they were talking about the cafeteria budget. They can never make enough breakfast tacos for the demand.
Austin is not a hub. Dallas is for some operations. Denver is a hub but in some divisions of Home Lending, it was nixed, for example. Make sure if you are calling an area a hub that you understand what is a hub for the enterprise vs for your area. I have governance partners in DC and Baltimore. They will never hire in those locations for some departments.
This is not news. To anyone. If it is, get out from under your rock.
Exactly. The business acumen in the current exec group is highly questionable. The real problem however is their integrity. They lie and expect us to believe it, as a result employees have no respect for them and tune out before long. I'm done listening to the nonsense. I have a job to do, I'll do it. They will say/do stupid things for a while longer and then leave the company and no one will miss them.
Yep. The idea that it EVER had anything to do with collaboration or innovation is a pack of lies, told right to our face with the full expectation that we're not smart enough to see it for what it is. These clowns have lost the locker room and are incapable of leading anything as a result. They should rip off the band-aid as far as staffing goes and then leave the company as soon as possible.
if you moved during COVID and didnt tell the company than you will likely get fired. if they approved you moving to Montana and being remote that is a different story.
Wells will be bringing back "public executions" (aka layoffs) due to non RTO compliance. They will make examples out of non compliant groups. Give it a month or so. They don't call "Chainsaw Charlie" for nothing.
Because they want you to quit or not follow RTO policy and term you so they can save on severance pay!
My biggest question is this: Why did they rip our our telecommuting agreements and then still keep us employed "for now"? Why not just go ahead and can us instead of stringing us along?
So glad I left the sh!tshow before it came to this. Best of luck y’all.
The maintain and growth labels are not about employees, it’s about market growth opportunities with customers. Austin isn’t and won’t be a hub city for employees. NYC, Charlotte, Des Moines, Minneapolis, Phoenix, maybe St Louis, Dallas, Houston. I wonder about SF. Used to be the mother ship and the seat of power. Now it’s overpriced talent and real estate. I’m in a clear hub city and I’m staying put, RTO and all.
There used to always be several of my positions posted. Now there are none. Not sure if it is just because of starting a new year and positions haven’t been posted yet. It appears many more positions available in the diverse country of India. I hope WF is working on their strategy to begin opening branches in India. They won’t need any in the US since everyone will be unemployed with no money. You don’t need a bank if you don’t have money.
Being remote and being laid off because you are remote would not be treating them differently. WF doesn’t have to support a remote workforce. That is simply a choice the company can make. No different than closing a office location or branch.
I’m sure good old Charlie and the rest have got the legal team working around the clock to minimize lawsuits and liabilities. Not a question if layoffs happen. More who and where.
Waiting years to force RTO to avoid paying, on average, less than a year of severance is some next-level business genius.
I wouldn't call the OP a lie, but there are some stretch points in there. You can't simply layoff all Remote workers otherwise you would be treating them differently and opening themselves to a lawsuit. Blanket Remote layoffs have not been the case as there are still plenty of folks not only no where near a hub, but no where near an office and who are officially listed as Remote in all systems of record. This includes folks who were at one time assigned to offices and others who have never been assigned a location.
That being said I do not believe being Remote is a Get Out of Jail Free card. I am sure they will mix some remote cuts in with whatever standard rounds of rightsizing that happen and couple that with the previous location strategy (move, if not then you are considered as abandoning your position) except with no relocation assistance this time. By offering the option of employment but at a different location it closes a majority of the lawsuit gaps.
And we need to look past the "hub" designation. Need to focus on the Maintain and Growth location designations vs Hubs. I saw recently where Dallas (Irving) and San Antonio are Growth sites, Austin is a Maintain. Unfortunately I didn't catch the rest but none of those 3 locations was ever a "HUB" previously but now they are viable work sites.
FNYC for doing this to people, it's ridiculous. The lengths they will go to to avoid severance is maddening, and they know it and expect us to 'buy' their BS platitudes and obvious lies. Not happening. This exec team won't be around much longer. They are here for one purpose, massively reduce headcount as cheaply as possible. They aren't forcing me out and I'm not going to cheerlead their BS either. F every one of them, I'll outlast these losers. Viva la resistance.
Oh for sure their will be offices outside the main hub locations in some major cities and some other non major cities depending on what LOB people are in. Let’s take home mortgage for example though. There is no reason for anyone to not be in a major hub location; Consults, processors, underwriters, closers, and funders. Being blunt they are all relatively low paying roles that are 100% non customer facing and don’t require a great expertise. So why have them anywhere but a major hub location? Why spend money on office space elsewhere for them? Especially with shrinking the mortgage portfolio, you just do not need as many of them. Some LOB’s will have a little more leeway. But if you think the bank is going pay for office space so 5-10 people in a non customer facing position have work space you are sorely mistaken.
thx OP! thx mid mgr for finally being straight with what you know.
Disclaimer, I know many people don't want to get laid off, and if I were laid off, it might be a tougher experience than I think.
While I work in a WF office that has people from many LOBs, I am not in a hub for my department (far from one). I have plenty of work to do; however, I don't like it very much. I wish I would get laid off due to my location. I don't think it'll happen, but I wish it would.
Hubs? Kind of depends on what department you are in. Big ones are Charlotte, Minneapolis, Des Moines, Phoenix/Chandler, Denver, and Austin.
What are the hubs?
Wise words here and aligns with everything I’ve heard from higher ups who have confided in me. Best be in a hub city if you want to stay employed here. I already know that someone on my team will be forced to move or will have to quit. She is in her 50’s and has extensive family where she lives. She has never lived anywhere else and has worked here for many years. I know she will not move and we will ditch her in a heartbeat. It’s sad to me.
I saw the writing on the wall and found a role in a hub city a couple of years ago. I need this job to support my family.
This is 100% correct. Everyone that was laid off on my team a few months are people that are not in the same state as hubs, so are unable to RTO. The remaining people are all within commutable distance.