CCC leadership here. We heard today that we will be getting assessments for our chat/online sales and service employees as Esurance is rolled on. There will be too many online service and sales reps. Also groups could be moved from online chat back to phones depending on need and assessments instead of being laid off to save the jobs. We have not told our employees yet as heads have not given the green light to.
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@LAi, what you are talking about is not only immoral but illegal. All it takes is one person in your little cabal to blow the whistle on you. BTW, this site isn't totally anonymous
Thanks for hijacking my CCC chat/online thread with this stupid FMLA sh!t throwing. Way to stick to the purpose of the board!
hope you have a very healthy family and your own health. FMLA is there to protect employees from people like you. It is to care for yourself or an immediate family member with a serious health condition. So someone with a sick child who has to take a few weeks here and there to care for the child deserves to lose their job over someone else? You must be single and/or very young, otherwise you are completely heartless. This is not someone calling in every monday because they were out partying. Unbelievable. You better hope.
Been keeping quiet but as a team manager here is my 2 cents. The workplace is not a charity and only so much can be tolerated for one person in which dozens of employees are impacted by their repeated absence. Sometimes life choices need to be made but we cannot tolerate holding onto constantly absent baggage that can affect many when we are trying to run the business of a company with tens of thousands of employees and millions of customers. Sometimes we must do what is best for the collective rather than what is "protected" and there are ways in which we need to get this done come Hell or high water. It gets to the point where your sick child or personal illness is not our collective problem. It is not a matter of being heartless but running a profitable business in fairness to our other hundreds and thousands of employees.
reading these posts it is obvious Allstate has a serious lack of management skills. The language used to describe their employees, how decisions are being made under false guise to avoid push back and overall lack of empathy it is no wonder why Allstate is in serious trouble. all you 'managers' on this board need leadership training and empathy training. Put yourself in their shoes and if you were in their shoes then shame on your manager for not mentoring you properly.
IT is people like that who think FMLA can be abused on why we are where we are in this world. Heartless, cold, greedy slobs who care for nothing and no one but themselves and self preservation. I feel for anyone working for you in your unit who have a sick child or parent. Shame on everyone who would do that.
"FMLA is used internally for RIF or terms but not communicated and sent to HR as something else. Our dept will not keep FMLA abusers if we can help it. Not good for our business. 1 time use ok, life happens but 2 more times and you're out."
hope you have a very healthy family and your own health. FMLA is there to protect employees from people like you. It is to care for yourself or an immediate family member with a serious health condition. So someone with a sick child who has to take a few weeks here and there to care for the child deserves to lose their job over someone else? You must be single and/or very young, otherwise you are completely heartless. This is not someone calling in every monday because they were out partying. Unbelievable. You better hope.
FMLA is used internally for RIF or terms but not communicated and sent to HR as something else. Our dept will not keep FMLA abusers if we can help it. Not good for our business. 1 time use ok, life happens but 2 more times and you're out.
Any HR department worth their education is what should be stopping these unethical decisions. If HR isn't doing that then the company has a bigger problem than money and shareholder returns. This type of shady $hit is why this country is getting worse for employees. Greed over ethics. I would never allow a manager to do that and would raise several red flags on that.
you can layoff someone who has used FMLA if their job is eliminated or they are lower rated however it cannot be because they used FMLA. That is the argument here. You cant say I am going to keep A because B used FMLA time. That is a straight line to legal problems. You can say I am going to keep A because they are higher rated than B or A has a specialized Skill that B doesn't but FMLA cannot be used as a factor in any way. A lawyer would have a field day with that one.
in our shop we never advance employees that used fmla and they are always at the front of the chop line. there is always a substitute reason to eliminate fmla cases for a rif and easy to do if their becomes a problem. you just call it something else.
promotions are not a factor here. Terminating employment or demoting someone is against the law for FMLA use. You can most certainly be passed over for promotion for absences, but you cannot take negative action on an employee for doing so in any way. I have done RIFs before and most times it is purely Top rated, Longest service on top, lowest rated, lowest performer on bottom. FMLA is not used as a factor to avoid any legal gray areas. Unless HR and Legal at Allstate has gotten worse, this has always been the RIF formula, or assessments, but those are used for situations where you have needs and duplicate jobs, but even then rating and service are used, then there is the disparate treatment test based on Race, Gender, Age, etc.
Going to chime in on this topic. Our area uses all attendance including FMLA time and behaviors when determining promotions and I know for a fact in prior lay offs that all attendance factors including repeated usages of FMLA were factors in final such decisions. Not saying there aren't ethical or legal ramifications but this company seems to always have their legalities and loophole exploiting in a row. I am simply stating that it is looked at internally but of course not communicated. One of the first things we do when deciding on promotions is check on leave of absences and FMLA history of potential applicants as we do not need a sicky or someone who misses 1/3 of the year to be placed in or promoted to an important role. Like it or not that is the nature of how things are done. FMLA is a protected medical action but that does not mean a company has to overlook it in doing what is best for it's interests.
"....including FMLA habits and usage in the past towards overall factors in determining "
Uh...NO. Absolutely not. Call any lawyer and ask if someone used FMLA a lot can you terminate them. YOU CANNOT USE FMLA TIME OFF AGAINST AN EMPLOYEE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!! do your research before you make people nervous....Bonehead. I have been doing this for over 20 years and that is a big absolute NO NO unless you want to be sued. IT IS PROTECTED ABSENCE.
I thought they got rid of using grunt/heavy/topper a while back when employees caught wind of it. They were afraid it would cause a big stink. Our leaders still use them in casually talking but not in a group or meeting session anymore and not in a long time.
Not a troll at all. Working as we speak...
Obviously you never hear of the non-exempt terms:
Front line - grunts
High Performing Non-Exempt- heavies
Potential Leaders - Toppers
And no you cannot terminate someone while on or in the applying process for FMLA but you can certainly use their overall attendance including FMLA habits and usage in the past towards overall factors in determining cuts and promotions. That is definitely within labor laws and practices. We do it all the time and it is a major consideration in internal company applications and promotions.
First, if you were leadership you would know better than to say trimming FMLA people as that is against the law. Second, you wouldn't call employees Grunts. Nice try troll.
Continued...while we are always hiring for online and phone sales and service the brining in of Esurance presents a 30-40% overage even on our regular high turnover ratios. This means we are 30-40% heavy as forecasted on grunts for the upcoming forecast of need. We have almost exactly that amount that can be trimmed on poor performance ratings, attendance and FMLA problem cases and less than 2 years tenure meaning minimal or no severance payouts. I am sure the names of the cuts on both sides have already been decided with assessments being the legal piece to put the cuts into action. While we will still be heavy on staffing it is better to be heavy in grunts over higher tiered, longer tenured, higher costing employees.