Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

I took the annuity back in 2015 and I have been investing more aggressively because I consider the annuity replacing the bond portion. Other than my cash back up, everything else is in fairly aggressive growth stocks and some indexes and I have been doing quite well with them, by the way. On top of that I haven't even been able to spend down the annuity, so I have been adding to other investments. But it is definitely an aggressive + annuity portfolio overall. Is that what you mean? Other than that, I came out smellin' like a rose and can't even think of enough toys to spend all the dough on. Wish you guys nothing but the best.

LOL, “aggressive/annuity”.... talk about oxymoron!

What's truly amazing is the one poster just says, "where are the real life stories from lump sum takers" then they all come out of the woodwork, obviously from the same person - lol.

I also took the annuity as a strategy to stay fully invested. It has paid off tremendously for me. I find that if you like to play the market you can use the annuity as a back up plan which allows you to go balls to the walls with any investment, stock pick, etc. that you would not otherwise do. On the other hand, if you like the safe route, are a timid investor, you just as well take the lump sum and put it in a safe mutual fund, maybe a target fund like the 2030, mentioned below. I have taken the aggressive/annuity route and it has paid off well for me. I couldn't have made a better decision, in hindsight.

3x in 10 years... amazing how good all the anonymous investors are! Just think you much better you would have done at that return rate than your anemic little annuity return.

3gftk, Yes I have had similar results with my investments, AT. I took the lifetime annuity in 2009 and was able to leave my relatively aggressively portfolio as is. Of course, from what I was invested in, only having it double in that time would have been a disappointment. I am in the 3 to 3.5X range at this point. The annuity has been more than enough to cover my expenses plus some with no debt. No free ride required. Just hard work and careful investing with the lifetime annuity has been the secret.

I took the lump in 2010 and put it all in an IRA and let it ride in a 2030 age fund with Fidelity. The value has almost doubled. Have not touched it because I have been spending down my non-tax-deferred accounts. That said, before the end of the year I need to start my forced min withdrawals, so the free ride is coming to an end.

@3fbiq, Here is my real life story. I retired at age 52 in 2016 after 30 years with CVX and took the lump sum when interest rates bottomed out in April of 2018. I rolled my lump sum into the CVX 401K in May 2018 and invested ~85% in very low cost mutual funds, the other 15% in safer bond funds. Why such 'risky' investments? I have several times the lump sum value in other investment accounts (taxable, IRA/401K, Roth, HSA) and my investment timeline is 40+ years (hopefully). As of today, the lump sum investments are up 16.4% (over a period of 1 year, 4 months = 12.1% annualized). I retired early because I felt like I had enough $ to last me 45-50 years comfortably and why work when you can enjoy life. I did a lot of modeling (I have an MBA in finance) and even created my own spreadsheet to decide the lump sum vs. annuity choice. I did not use FIRECalc for my decision as it does not include taxes which are one of the biggest factors in retirement investment strategies. If I had chosen the annuity, the monthly checks would have been taxed as income starting with my first check at age 60. My lump sum, invested in a tax-free IRA/401k account, will not be taxed until I am required to start taking distributions at age 70.5. It was a pretty easy choice for me and one that I am very confident in. Hopefully this is enough detail for you.

I ran my numbers quite a few times on one of the more popular retirement calculators and the regular old pension (non-lump, annuity payments, joint survivor) came out the winner in all cases. Works for me. Rounded out numbers are ~ 5.5k monthly payment, about 1mm lump sum, and I have about 4mm in other investments, pre and post tax. I did not set the investments on the projected "invested lump" as high as the rest of my aggressive portfolio, as it is guaranteed and that is an incomparable virtue. Anybody get appreciably different results worthy of note?

3gxjx, Speak for yourself annuitroll. I see no posts here but your's littered with insults and false unsupported claims. And do stay perpetually angry, and spouting hatred and vitriol simply because others are more successful and made better choices in life than you. It must svck to be you and to keep clinging to a false narrative that is not supported by economic theory and math. You should try to learn from your superiors on this thread instead of constantly berating others.

This site has only attracted a bitter annuitant troll, unfortunately. Too late to make that life decision again. We feed him arguments since that is all he has to occupy his day at this point.

Yes, that's a good point. But I'm not surprised that we haven't seen any or only a couple of dubious ones. I know a few people to had to take the lump sum because either that's the only choice that they had due to debt, or because they thought they could outplay the market, like some here. Well they learned their lesson. They are mostly all broke. The statistics are that half to three quarters of the people who receive a lump sum blow it in the first few years or lose it in the stock market. It's typical for non-college educated to take the lump sum, and falsely believe that they can do better with it than taking a pension. I'm not surprised. Good luck to all, whichever route you choose to go or are forced to.

I have read numerous stories from retirees who have opted for the pension as an annuity and their status and levels of success with it. I would like to read some real life stories from those who have taken the lump sum, how they invested it, their retirement strategies, etc. and how they made out. And not the usual troll BS that has become so common on this thread. Thanks.

Sorry, as usual I messed up my post again (typical for me, I screw everything up) I meant that you it might be worth getting an attorney and arguing you didn’t understand the finances and meant to choose the annuity. Even with hefty legal fees it would work out better if HR let you change to the annuity.

Seems like it might be worth getting an attorney and arguing you didn’t understand the finances and meant to choose the lump sum. Even with hefty legal fees it would work out better if HR let you change to lump.

• 3ejdq: HR is not going to allow a “do over”! It is a once in a lifetime choice, so decide with care. If you take the lump and wish you had an annuity (for some strange reason), then you can buy one on the open market for about 120% the lump value. If you take the annuity and the next day sell it for cash out you will end up with about 50% the value of the lump. Either way, you lose significant value the day you drive it all the lot!

Sorry, I meant the guy who mistakenly chose the financially worse one of the two, the lump sum. Obviously most of the people here and everyone I know chose the pension annuity and are happily retired and no one regrets it.👍

The guy who took the annuity should at least try calling HR to see if he can switch to the lump. Maybe they could recalculate or something. If they refuse, you are no worse off than you are now.

Still dreaming about the bull run continuing forever Annuitroll? Why haven't you been saving all along and taking advantage all this time building up your nest egg so you don't need a bailout at retirement and can retire independently wealthy with choices not needing to be in the "accumulation phase" any longer ? Oh, yeah, that's right, you'd rather spout hatred, envy and criticize those who are more successful than you and already won, unlike you- lol!

• 3doof: LOL. Never say never, but as long as you’re dreaming why not fantasize about $1000/day from publishers clearinghouse?

@3dban, before too long, the US will get into negative interest rates. By then, you’d be glad you chose the annuity pension before that happened. Once you are get the annuity, the monthly amount is fixed for life. Inflation will never be higher than it is right now, with exception for very brief hiccups lasting only a few months before it settles down again. Your paralysis by analysis decision making will be the worst thing that happens to you. Choose the annuity as your pension and worry about the larger sum you have already invested in the market through your 401k and IRA.

“inflation affects everyone the same”...well, yes and no. Most balanced investments in stock and bond funds will provide enough returns to fund a 6% long-term draw down rate plus have enough left over to grow the lump at the rate of inflation. With an annuity the real value of the payments goes down at an exponent rate reflecting the accumulation of the inflation rate of all previous years after you lock in. Buying life insurance now as a hedge against the future makes sense because the cost gets higher as you get older. Buying an annuity as a hedge makes less sense since the price for a given annuity payment rate just gets cheaper with age. Lesson: don’t buy it until you really need it... dementia diagnosis or what have you.

Use your lump sum to buy annuities, mo–n? FYI, inflation affects everyone the same.

Even with low inflation, the pension annuity will be completely worthless if you live more than 20 years. If I live to be 80 I will use the lump sum to buy an annuity that pays 10-12% per year. If inflation roars and I'm still alive, I'll buy another one with even better terms when I'm 90. Rinse and repeat.

3dcgk, I came to the same conclusion as well. And I guess I am one of the fortunate ones who can just look at the annuity as an insurance policy for me and the spouse. sort of like OASDI insurance. we have more than enough to support our lifestyle + some without the pension, thanks to Chevron and some healthy savings. most people ask the wrong question, like "what if I die and don't get to use many years of payments?" that's the completely wrong question. if you die you're dead. you won't be worrying about payments. the question is "what if you Live to a ripe old age?" Social security, which is inflation adjusted + pension, which hopefully won't be seized like other assets can be for medical costs., but you never know.

"Bad note"? what the heck is a "bad note" ? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical. Who speaks like that? Sounds like someone is learning English by watching movies from the 1950's. Are the trolls here from the US, or foreign trolls?

@3dxcl, Almost everyone that I know of who took the lump sum had debt. I know NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE who took the lump sum and had the ability to take it and invest it all as some claim can be done with so much magical success. And I know quite a few retirees. Many were struggling and needed to pay off their debt. the rest had at least some. The ones who can afford the better choice financially, took the annuity.
I took the annuity because I can afford it. I have high 7 figures already invested in a well diversified portfolio. The Pension lump would not change that much either way. The annuity for the spouse was the best fit and a great value.
Were your rude and off the mark bizarre comments intended toward someone else or are you just a troll? I had no "bad notes", never have, nor was I ever "laid off".

@3cqso, I whole heartedly agree with you. I took the 100% JS annuity and didn’t see an appreciable difference between that monthly amount and that of the Single Life annuity. Logically, one would expect that having a younger spouse would diminish the 100% JS annuity amount to some degree, because of the potential for the fixed annuity payout to be drawn out over more years than if the spouse and retiree were the same age, as in my case. If I’m correct in my logic, it seems like the difference is not that significant to merit a departure from taking the 100% JS annuity.

• 3ddym: too bad you did not plan well and were laid off with huge debts. Although you had to take the lump to pay your bad notes, for most people taking the lump is one a the last chances they will have to move a huge amount of money into a tax deferred account.

• 3deba, not sure what you're smoking or who you are replying to but I have used firecalc and I found that the annuity comes out ahead in all cases. I have seen no firecalc results on this thread at all. Firecalc comes out with a higher success rate and with more funds left over when I model my portfolio with the annuity. please post your results if you have anything to offer that is real and tangible or S.T.F.U. you sound like a pathetic little baby envious of those who prepared well and can retire wealthy while you can't.

“No one on this entire thread”... except all the folks who shared their FIREcalc numbers, which showed much better outcomes investing the lump. Saying the pension annuity is better than other annuity is true, but irrelevant to the question of annuity vs lump. Funny how you are such a huge annuity fan boy when you took the lump to pay off all your debts. Those with real money would never even consider an annuity... it is clearly a huge mistake.

@3ccow, That's so true, I couldn't agree more! No one on this entire thread has been able to postulate even a single verifiable example of the lump sum being good for anything but paying off debt all at once if you're in a hole because of bad decision making. There are, on the other hand, quite a few examples of why the annuity is a better choice financially for a long successful happy retirement. Cheers!

3cftp, I don't know your numbers but I took the same option, 100% JS annuity, I think that is the most popular one for married individuals. My spouse is several years younger than I am and the difference between that and a single, non spousal was not very much. It almost made it seem like the age of the spouse did not matter, I could be wrong. And both of those choices were far better than the lump sum. The lump sum, when converted to a comparable priced annuity, could not match the pension which was offered by the company in either case. The effective return is roughly 6%. Not many investments in conservative funds can sustain that, much lest anything guaranteed. And when it's gone it's gone. I have no heirs and wouldn't pad their lifestyle if I did. I don't care "how much is left" as some people say about the lesser preferred lump. I generally wouldn't want to dive into the principal of my productive assets in any case, so who cares if I die with c-notes to line my coffin or not? lol.

• 3cxxr: Oh please. Just admit that you are unable to postulate even a single scenario verifiable example.

3cfnu, I suppose for the same reason that a majority of retirees take the annuity, as noted in this thread in numerous occasions/instances. Those people probably were set and either didn't have questions or had no need to show up to a boring seminar. In my case, on the other hand I, like some interested folks you may have come across am way more interested in the lump Doeplan is to pay off all debt, and I should have just about enough to also pay off my rental. With that and the income from social security, I should be good to go indefinitely. Sippin' scotch and living large!

Nobody there had the slightest interest in the annuity. Why on earth would they?

“ took the 100% J-S annuity because the math worked to my favor”... what “math”?, please explain.

@3cmav, I’m a Chevron retiree who took the 100% J-S annuity because the math worked to my favor. But, please realize that if you have a much younger spouse, the kind of annuity I chose won’t work out exactly the same for you and your young spouse. Chevron calculates the 100% Joint & Survivor annuity based on the ages of both retiree and spouse. Because this type of annuity is payable until the last survivor dies, the monthly amount will be less than if both beneficiaries were closer in age. The annuity calculation uses each persons statistical life expectancy, so if one person is younger, that person is expected to life longer, hence the lower monthly annuity payment. That’s how it works.

@3buon, One would expect Fidelity Investments to “suggest” most retirees prefer the lump sum, because if they can convince as many of you to go that route, they stand a better chance of you allowing them to manage your retirement money when you retire. Ask yourself a logical question; How is it possible for them to state that most people take the lump sum when they can’t possibly know how many retirees take the annuity? All they can do is to try to leave you with the impression that most retirees choose the lump sum.

There was a huge turnout for the Fidelity retirement seminar today in the Houston office. Most of the questions were around the lump sum. Without any prompting, the speaker noted that “of course most people prefer the lump sum but the annuity could make sense. One older widow opted for it because she had low needs,no heirs and no experience investing.” There you go. Ask anyone who was there.