Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

• Sorry about that 3bkiu . It probably is because I lack the maturity and intelligence to assess and argue against the better mathematical choice, the annuity and also I was born with an empty nutsack. Yes. it's true, I lack testicular fortitude because of that and have never invested wisely and hope that the lump would give me the opportunity to get on my feet after a lifetime of failure. I was also hoping that by taking the lump Doewould one day be able to buy a pair, if science has advanced to that point when I retire.

Dang, this thing keeps replying twice on me again. I guess that's OK. I have my annuity payment which covers high speed internet, phone, TV, all the bells and whistles, everything else I need and I also have some left to save and grow the old nestegg, which is enormous already, or "blow that dough" as the saying goes. Life is good - lol!

Yes, @3blhu, Thanks for clearing that up, that's what I have found too, and is also the opinion of 90% of the posters on this thread including retirees. It's nice to know that the majority here are wise and college educated.

• 3bpqx: Despite your false characterizations and “alternative facts”, most Chevron retirees will continue to get solid advice from an unbiased financial advisor before retirement and will discover, as I have, that a reasonably invested lump provides a high probability of a much better long-term return.

I have personally spoken to HR and she indicated that it is well over 50% of retirees who choose the Chevron Pension Annuity. so there's that. A troll posted earlier the false 80% figure. Free free to check for yourself. No reason to believe me or an anonymous post on a forum with laid-off people needing lump sums to bail themselves out of debt because of investment incompetence. The people who choose a lump sum are typically losers who have been lifelong failures at investing, and timid. with no balls, hence, need money, and also fancy themselves being able to one day be successful investors, hence all the BS ego talk/hope for the future, such as yours. Successful people have already won at retirement time.

• 3bymj: What total and complete nonsense. As already stated in this thread, HR indicates 80% take the lump and for very good reason (as has also already been stated here many times). There is a strong probability one will do a lot better investing the money yourself. The annuity is best for those afraid or incompetent to handle money themselves. For the majority of Chevron retirees it is a poor choice.

As an overwhelming majority of employees and retirees have confirmed, up voted, and elaborated on at length below, the traditional pension annuity is both the most popular and financially advantaged choice. I hope that we can once and for all put this thread to rest.

I don't have a preference at all for lump sum or annuity but can assure you readers with 100% certainly that the poster below claiming that stocks will be a better investment than bonds or, annuities, etc. etc., if inflation takes off doesn't have a clue, is feeding you manure, and pulling stuff out of his orifices.

I've lived during a couple of double digit inflation years. There have been 5 sporadic years in the last 90 years with double digits. Average US inflation is roughly 3%. So "a few years at 10% inflation" as someone posted, yes, it would be quite the "stretch" is accurate. The person who claimed that is correct. Also irrelevant to the discussion. Inflation affects all monies.

Double digit inflation is not much of a stretch. The USA has had it before and other countries have it now. It comes from being fiscally irresponsible. Our deficit is reaching toward GDP, which should be a clear warning. We are running trillion dollar annual deficits even during the current economic boom. The only reason this debit level is sustainable is because interest rates have stayed low recently and other countries keep buying our notes. I the dollar loses it luster as the international currency (because, for example, investors get sick of losing money to our quantitative easing), then we could see a big pull back for the demand for our notes. This could all end in a very unpleasant way for us. If inflation does take off, stocks will be much better investments than bonds, because stock represent tangible value in companies and not just paper. An annuity is not inflation protected at all, and associated payments will rapidly decline in value with rising inflation. So good luck with that when the cards fall.

10% inflation? wow. Now THAT's a stretch. So, somehow, the lump sum will be immune to this same 10% inflation that affects annuities and not lose it's buying power yet the value of a dollar decreases? It's just magical, I tell ya!

37cuh, 2 tours in Iraq and happy to have served, you? You sound bitter and envious. Maybe you should have paid attention in school and you could afford an annuity today. There's still time for you to become an American you know!
You're welcome.

You did nothing for anyone but yourself, but your daddy did, so.... well, so what. The annuity is all you need... for now, but maybe not after a few years at 10% inflation. What about all that you paid into the system ...what about all that you didn’t and all you spent, leaving the nation with huge debt and failing infrastructure. What about all the folks that paid no taxes (for the most part that’s all bull: no federal income taxes in some cases but lots of other taxes), but more to the point if the top takes all the profits and the bottom is left with peanuts they don’t have much left to pay anything. Maybe at some point in your life you might realize we are all in this together as a nation, and it is not just about “me, me, me”.

37xks, That's true, there's no politician these days willing to touch social security to any significant effect, they would lose too many voters, young and old. Anyone working has skin in the game. There are, of course, those with no skin in the game. That 45% or so who pay no taxes. that's a different story, we know who they vote for. At best SS will get tweaked a bit, raising of taxable income, etc. As it stands, there is funding in place until ~2034, and about 77% indefinitely, IIRC. Big wup? I am not even including SS in my FIRE calculations. It's a non-issue. Many Chevron people are like that. The annuity is all that I need, in addition to other streams that I have in place. There must be people here posting again jealous of those who are financially successful while they are not. For what other reason would they be bringing on the doom and gloom scenarios?

@37elh, You're wrong. 100% wrong. The only one with "righteous indignation" is you, apparently. I happen to be a millennial, BTW. You are stereotyping and generalizing so badly that BS is bleeding out of your ears - lol! How about the people who volunteered and fought in those wars like my dad? How about all those hard workers who paid into the system that you benefit from, like my parents and grandparents did? They don't deserve the returns from the SS and Medicare that they paid into for many more years than many younger people do or plan to? Do you think that everyone of a particular generation is responsible for your problems, and are responsible for your failure to succeed? It certainly seems so. It's obvious what side of the entitled political spectrum that you are on from your comments. I feel sorry for those like you who cannot stand on your own and need to rely on others and mommie government. I promise you that if any of these entitlements that you speak of becomes insolvent you and your ilk will be the first to crumble like delicate little dependent cookies - lol.

The great generation won WW2 and then mostly paid for that war over the next few decades while also paying it smart forward with the marshal plan etc to help solve the problems that ignited that war. The baby boomers were all “hell no I won’t go” when young. As they got older It was nonstop just cut my taxes...wars and police actions nonstop, put it on the credit card and cut my taxes... yet another stimulus to pull up from a downturn, put it on the credit card and cut my taxes... rich wants yet another pretend “pay for itself trickle down cut cut”... no problem, put it on the credit card and cut my taxes. Now you are ready for retirement, infrastructure crumbling, longest war in history still ranging, inequality in pay greater than ever, planet requiring a lot of new investment to stay viable (no matter who’s “fault”) and you say... what...but you owe me. Really, for what? To be clear, I am a middle baby boomer myself, so I saw it all play out. XYZ generations owe us very little, as we as a generation took everything not bolted to the floor and gave little back. The sad news for you (and me), is that what you have saved, that nest egg, only has value based on today’s workers and what they produce. If we do not keep the economic machine working and functional, your money will have little value. The current generations will look out for themselves first, just as we did. If deficits keep rising, and the costs become unsustainable, the way to claw back value in by inflation... fast and easy. The old folks have always been the first pushed off the boat... so spare me your righteous indignation.

@36evp, There is no constitutional requirement for Social Security, but all politicians understand very well what will happen to them if they mess with it. Relax, it’s a promise made a long time ago and nothing will happen to this program. Whether you have put 35 years or more into the system, or as few as 40 quarters, you are in the same boat with over 120 million voters.

Yes indeed. The generations up until now who have been diligently slaving and working night and day paying FICA taxes, OASDI, providing the funding and tax base for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Welfare, SNAP, and many other social services since their initiation should be not only PUNISHED for their hard work and contributions, but also BLAMED for climate change, something which has been occurring for hundreds of thousands of years, throughout geologic time, well before human presence. Gotcha!

I am sure the XYZ generations will be delighted to pay huge increases in payroll to keep your retirement plans on track given all your generation did for them: the crumbling infrastructure, the 20 trillion in debt, the rising sea level, and so much more! Parallel to what I keep hearing about healthcare spending, there is no constitutional requirement that you get all you Soc Security allotment when the system becomes insolvent.

It’s posted on the Social Security website and on everyone’s statement that SSA funding is falling short and by 2034 benefits may need to be cut by 21% if nothing is changed before then. I’m willing to bet that by 2034, benefits will not be cut at all. There’s even a small chance that benefits will be increased slightly. What I’m more certain of is that payroll taxes will be increased for both employer and employee and the ceiling for social security taxes on the employee with be raised from its current $139,000 to about $400,000. That will most likely happen to shore up the SS fund rather than 60 million current and an equally large number of near term recipients lose benefits. The politicians on either side of the aisle are not bringing up the subject in this Presidential election year and will never touch the “third rail” of politics in the next 15 years. The social security can will continue to be kicked down the road for a very long time to come. The solution will eventually be to raise taxes on everyone instead of cutting benefits. That’s why I’m not worried a bit about social security benefits or about rampant inflation happening in this country.

@36iun, There’s nothing to fear but fear itself. The Chevron annuity will be fine and so is social security. Inflation will also remain tame for the foreseeable future.

I would not take a Chevron backed annuity because I think the company is going to be in big trouble in under a decade as the extent of global warming becomes increasingly clear. Yes I know the pension is backed to some extent by the feds, but the country’s deficit spending is going to go through the roof with the double whammy of funding alternative energy infrastructure and increasing disaster relief. Add to that that many pensions (public and government) are way under funded and even soc security may be tapped out in ten years. The government will need to print more money to keep the system from collapsing, which would be very inflationary. Fear of future uncertainty makes me want to keep my powder always dry, ready to move as needed into new investment areas. It is a fools bet that inflation will always be low, even as our federal deficit continues to skyrocket.

@35jih, quite the contrary, my story is not made up. It seems a few people posting here complain that other commenters who's choices they disagree with call them "made up" or "fake posts". no reason for me or anyone else to post fake posts. I posted below about taking the annuity and being completely satisfied with it and the spending opportunity that it provides. Nothing "Made-up" about it. Why would it be? I also doubt that we'll need much more in retirement as we are slowing down and spending less and have everything that we need. That's what happens when you get old - lol! All that money that you thought you needed to be happy is no longer required. Past a certain point, money does not make you any more happy. You live, you learn.

And one is just as likely to LOSE more risking the lump, at a time when successful people are retired, wealthy and have no need or reason to assume any more risk than necessary. That fancy new car, truck, home, boat or other thing that you are dreaming that you may one day be able to afford by investing the lump and hoping that an historical bull run continues(history has shown otherwise) -they can already afford those things NOW....... TODAY. They won the game that you still need to play to get ahead to be able to afford such things. Sinking in yet?

My point is this thread long ago descended into nonsense: make up stories and visceral. It is a simple choice: a million bucks or $55k/yr (or prorated amounts thereof). One is likely to make more investing the lump, based on historical market returns and some tax advantages. On the other hand, a traditional pension can be comforting. Make your choice and move on.

Fair enough, So your comment is that you are green with envy, have no counter argument or strategy about savings, investing, or annuity vs lump sum, , but wish to insult and spew hatred and vitriol because you are so unsuccessful, poor and jealous of others who are wealthy enough to have a choice. No problem. We're not here to judge!

I took the lump because I have so much money there is no way I can spend it all. I stacked the whole lot in Benjamins next to the can so that it is handy for wiping... nothing like a nice smooth greeny to get the job done. People take the annuity because they can’t find their a–**le. The misses and I have been delighted with my choice... life is great.

I also took the 100% Joint and Survivor annuity and have been thoroughly happy with the decision. I have plenty left over from it and social security, which is cost of living adjusted (COLA) to continue saving and investing a bit as well. There's no way that we could spend it and all of my nest egg down before we leave this great Earth. We travel frequently and own late model cars/trucks and a nice multi-level home which is now way too much for just us two, so we will likely be downsizing. I would recommend it to anyone asking who can afford it, has met their goals and is no longer in the "accumulation stage", wanting a stress-free guaranteed funded retirement. Good luck to all with your decisions.

@34ypq. yea buddy I'm taking the traditional pension annuity also. There's no reason to pass it up. My 401k has enough invested already, and I have an after tax account packed to the gills. The only thing I'm missing is a guaranteed income stream for life to diversify. Looking forward to it. Congrats to all with the pension success stories.

34bxg, Congrats on your retirement and your excellent decision to take the superior choice, the pension annuity! No, you are mistaken, I will retire at 56 and can afford to do so. I also have enough years in and do not plan on passing up the chance of a lifetime to get a decent pension when the time comes, something that is getting more and more rare. Yet I do enjoy my job and may continue consulting part time. have a few offers coming in already, like it or not - lol. Have fun with your retirement.

@34kqe, It’s clear to us you want to continue working, so your choice is to take the lump sum and roll it into a tax deferred retirement account. I’d do the same exact thing too, but in my case, I want to retire and can afford to at 62. So, in my case and after 32 years of working for Chevron, I choose to take the annuity pension and enjoy life. The rest of my money in retirement accounts will continue invested and carefully managed by me.

If one wants an immediate annuity for some reason, than I agree the Chevron pension annuity is a great deal. The rest of what you say makes little sense. The lump can be rolled directly into a tax deferred account, whereas I need to pay taxes on the annuity payments each year. After I pay my taxes, I guess I could then invest the annuity payment, but not in a tax deferred account. More to the point the returns on the full lump will be an order of magnitude more than the returns on a single year of annuity payments...really not comparable at all! If I really just want an annuity for end of life safety, I am much better off waiting, because the older I get the more annuity I can buy for a given dollar. After 20 years invested in a tax deferred account I can buy an equivalent Chevron like annuity for a small fraction of the lump value it would cost today (simply because I will be older).

33jgr, No, you are much better off accepting the CVX pension annuity than taking the lump sum and buying one. The CVX annuity is one of the best values on an annuity against one that can be purchased on the open market available today. That is why it is favored so highly in comparison with most annuities offered. And if you choose to take an annuity, nothing's keeping you from investing the payments immediately, if the income is not needed right away, yet still securing the pension annuity and it's high rate of return (relative to other annuities and similar conservative investments, of course) for a later date when you are old and feeble and maybe keeping up with investments is not your bag. In addition, as you age, it's not uncommon for life/health/family situations to deplete "nest eggs. Extremely common. The annuity will always be there. So about your "making no sense." comment, maybe you should talk to a financial advisor. I understand there are some available with our 401k admin. group who can give you some simple coaching. Good luck.

Many people on a pension or other income guaranteed stream opt to take the annuity form to lock in the guaranteed status until death for them and their spouse. In the meantime if those funds are not needed they can be invested. Like for instance I can just live on the 5.6 mm that I already have invested and not forfeit an exceptional deal on a guaranteed annuity when I decide in a few years. And spend it or invest it as I please. Best of both worlds. Good luck.🍀

“I can invest my annuity, invest my lump”: you’re making no sense. You can invest your lump or use it to buy an annuity....you can’t do both! If you give your money away you can not also generate investment income on it.

• 33zyc, the only thing guaranteed about the value of a dollar is it will diminish over time. lump or annuity. not sure how that favors one over the other. I can invest my annuity, invest my lump. I can leave my $4.5MM in investments alone to grow and live off of the annuity. I cannot do that with the lump sum, It will need to be invested and managed. However, I am particularly skilled at that, and still don't always care or need to. I can afford not to. Inflation and the diminishing value of a dollar does not know me from you or the guaranteed annuity from the pathetic lump or any other investment. Try again. I will be eating much more than beans and rice and also beans and rice as I feel like it. I can afford either choice, and it won't make a hill of beans of difference to my lifestyle or income. They are roughly equivalent in value. It is only those who's lifestyles that it will have the greatest impact on, the poor savers/investors on this site, who protest the annuity so loudly.

Yes, @32uzy, you are correct, but also as thick as a brick. The whole premise of the discussion is annuity vs lump sum. At the Dollar amount the annuity pays out monthly until you die, the lump sum will eventually diminish to zero. So, unless you are a vampire and will never die, your time horizon will be at the mercy of your financial management skills and the market.

“considerable luck”? I am 65 now, and it would take 17 years of annuity payments for me just to get the value of the lump returned to me (age 82). During that time if I were very unlucky by historical standards the declining lump would still have doubled in gross value, such that it would last in total least another 17 years of annuity payment withdrawals (age 99) before the money is gone. It the most likely case, the lump value would not have declined at all. The only thing guaranteed about the annuity is it’s fix payment will be worth less over time, historically its value will have dropped in half after 20 years (age 82)...so I hope you like beans and rice.

@31rqk, the "starting value" of 5m as you call it in the year 2000 has a current dollar value of over $10MM . That is, of course if you are being truthful. In any event, a person with that level of assets (You are the proverbial 1%) did not need to be concerned with trivialities such as a pension annuity or lump sum and it made very little difference since you CAN EASILY AFFORD it, either one. You had options. Some people don't and need a lump sum payoff to survive. What brings you to post anonymously on a "layoffs" thread? I don't buy your line, but that's just me.

32uzy, Good point. And with reasonable controlled withdrawals and considerable luck those withdrawals may last until you die. And with another bout of luck, if your elderly (or not) spouse also is good at investing, and staying the course, and the account is set up properly, they may also benefit as well. Sort of like the 100% Joint survivor annuity. Except that the second one requires no luck or skill and is guaranteed.