Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

2wvhc, Dillweed, it's not on their site. No one here claimed that it is. Study finance or economics much? Didn't think so, numnuts. Go retake grade school math, then we'll stat from there. Don't quit your day job, you need all the help and guidance you can get, son. LMAO!

@2vplh, Why not just Google ‘Social Security Actuarially Neutral”. Tell me you find on the SSA.gov website. Then instead of coming off as a dunce on this site, you might learn something useful.

What the heck are you talking about they are actuarially neutral, as one person wrote. Now what's precious are the children born yesterday going on and on claiming that they can do better risking their money in the market than with a guaranteed fixed annuity, as if that's comparable. You don't say????? LOL

If you foolishly took the lump sum. the value of your assets are assured a quick and rapid demise based on even the modest inflation rates experienced today. And you may want to pick up an application for Medicaid, Welfare and Foodstamps if you insist on stupidly taking the lump sum when inflation gets back to the normal average again. Not pretty. No siree. I feel bad for those folks

Social Security is structured to be actuarially neutral, just as the Chevron pension options. It doesn’t matter when you start collecting your benefits, whether at 62 or 70. Based on your mortality, the average person will collect about the same amount of toral money over their lifetime.

Inflation is largely irrelevant if you are invested in stocks. It is a rapid, exponential death for an annuity holder.

• @2uqqf 2% inflation is not a "hit" it's a gift - lol

Actually waiting on SS is more of a mistake for those who take the lump sum. Those types are usually more in debt, and did not save and invest wisely throughout their career, hence they need the bump. The annuity types are generally conservative, frugal, no life, sitting on a pile of cash and have no idea what to do with it and wouldn't know how to have a good time anyway lol!

Typical Chevron retirees after 30 years at a stressful desk job are so out of shape mentally and physically that the life expectancy runs closer to 70 than 80, so waiting on SS is a big mistake, especially for annuitants.

Social Security at 70 for those who can afford it and are not afraid of the big bad boogie man. Different topic but related. There are so many discussions/arguments on that, I'll just step aside and observe the nausea & ridiculousness. Another one that's personal. If you're broke and need it, 62 is the solution for sure.

As long as you can survive until Social Security at age 62, the hit from inflation is manageable at 2%. Just keep your spending as low as possible.

50% inflation over 20 years is not "horrifying". just over 2% a year. What do we normally use for calculations, 2.5 to 3%? I take it most folks here are very young.

50% inflation over just 20 years is horrifying, but even more so considering those were about the lowest levels we have ever seen. Healthcare inflation seems even worse.

Yea, that's funny. sad and pathetic, but funny. I also took the annuity, and have at least 10X in net worth since I started retirement because I had the annuity to cover my expenses. It's laughable to read the trolls or troll?() on here attack anyone who comments about taking an annuity. I can only imagine that he's a very bitter, jealous individual with no savings and no life and has nothing to do but cowardly bash others who he is jealous of. Must be a sad life.

That's an awesome success story, Becky thanks for sharing! Yea, just ignore the jealous trolls, no matter what you post, they will attack you with negativity. Just ignore them. They hate that, they thrive on attention, like deprived, depraved little children.

I took the annuity and I have no need for any more income. I still love to work, though, just not at my old job, and I don't have to. My investments are soaring, and they have been for some time unfettered. And I haven't had to touch them, as some have stated below, since I have an annuity which covers my expenses, and social security ready to take, but I haven't needed to yet so I will wait. I have enough to travel, stay healthy, have a new boyfriend, life is good. Happy to read all the encouragement on this site, with a few exceptions . ha ha .

@2urge, Past performance is no indication of future results. I assume you’ve heard that before?

Total inflation since 2000 has been about 50%. I will leave the math to the reader as an exercise.

@2uuvf, Yes, I repeated my earlier comment which was apparently deleted and it obviously didn't sink in with the new people not having a clue and going on and on about trolls and thinking that they are always right in light of having no investment or life experience.
Is that your full time, day-long hobby, checking this site for duplicate comments to police them? I'm pretty sure that they have moderators for that. No need to waste your time.
Wow..... just wow........you may seriously need to rethink your life and priorities.........

A buddy of mine left at the time of the Chevron-Texaco merger around 2000 or so and took the annuity. He has been spending like a race horse on steroids but the market has done so well that he says his other investments that he did not touch since he had the annuity to live off of are up more than 500% over what he started with. Go figure.

A buddy of mine left at the time of the Unocal merger and got his lump sum. He has spent like a demon but the market has done so well is says he is up a bit more than 20% over what he started with 14 years ago. Go figure.

• 2tqib: maybe after a long productive career the old timer still enjoys his/her work. Go figure? I might do some consulting after I retire, even though I have no NEED for more money.

• 2tepc: At least the third time you posted this on this thread along. So to be clear, you told the Vanguard guy you wanted an annuity and he said well in that case the pension annuity is a great choice. Did you ask him, is it a good idea to take an annuity: I suspect not. The questions YOU ask are important.

When I was laid off and had decided to finally retire, I requested my retirement application papers. When it arrived, I had 90 days to review, sign and return it for processing. I called Vanguard and they set up a date and time for a retirement advisor to call me. When they called, they were prepared to offer me an investment plan to manage my 401k portfolio. When they asked me about my pension lump Doeraised the question about possibly taking the annuity instead. The Vanguard Certified Financial Advisor analyzed the annuity IRR vs investing the lump sum conversion amount and determined the Chevron annuity to be very generous compared to any other fixed income investment he had ever seen. Based on my financial needs and wishes, he told me the pension annuity was a great fit for me. He offered me a great investment plan to manage my 401k portfolio.

@2tmxn, It’s clear to me the old timer wished he had taken the annuity. Ask yourself why it is he’s back to work after taking the lump sum? Answer— he knows it won’t last long enough. But don’t expect him to admit it to anyone. The man in the mirror already knows.

I had lunch today with an old timer who is back at work on contract. He bragged about taking the lump sum and I know he networks with a lot of other old petrotechs so I ask if he thought anyone took the annuity. He nearly choked on his meatloaf and laughed “I know some crazy retirees, but nobody that stupid”.

2tmnr that is correct about your false lump sum assertions. You have nothing to back it up with. NADA ..nothing That speaks nothing. You cannot even deliver one page of a volume.

• 2twqc: so basically you can not put forth even a single scenario...that speak volumes.

• No need to make up fake stories on this site. The people speak for themselves. Stay deluded though. Crickets on any mathematical explanation of the false investment claims i see....... shoot even a used car salesman sells a lump clunker every now and then, so...

• 2ttei no counting all the fake story’s you made up. I am still waiting for someone to present a verifiable reasonable scenario that I can enter into FIREcacl. Just one...should not be hard for a well educated investor like yourself😒

No, 2twnr, -lmao. it's You who never stops and doesn't present the verifiable reasonable example. All you are reading are success stories and you simply can't stand that people are more knowledgeable and successful than you. Why don't you ask the guy who's conclusion below is to take an annuity if you know that you only have a few more years to live. That's a new approach. lol! 😁

LOL. You people never stop! I am still waiting for someone to present a verifiable reasonable scenario that I can enter into FIREcacl that would give me the result that the annuity has a higher probability of success than investing the equivalent lump. Come on, any scenario!

The “insurance” of an annuity does seem comforting, but it comes at a very high cost no matter when you get it. At age 60, it makes little sense to me on a cost benefit analysis. At age 85 my calculations might be different, who knows. I do agree that the pension annuity is the best deal one will get on an annuity, but it is an all in (or not) expense with the lump. Latter in life you will buy a much higher payout for the same amount of money, but the costs will still be high relative to the then projected benefit. I guess I could see getting one as protection against the high cost of nursing home care if you had modest funds (so that you will have something coming in even if you otherwise run out of money, since the home never takes every last cent of income)...but then you are basically banking on the fact that public funds will make up your shortfall. I do not currently plan to be in that position, however, as I have a very good sized egg and have always paid my own way through life. Maybe if the wife was gone and I was diagnosed with early onset of dementia....I am sure there is some situation that might make me consider an annuity....but that scenario is not obvious to me at this point. All that said, I agree one should never say never.

Same here. I consider myself a very good investor, have been successful, definitely have the time in to show for it, I took the annuity and still manage quite a bit of moderate risk investments. The nice thing is now I do not need to touch them and am making more money than ever. Why all the negative posts? Someone's got an axe to grind?

I also took the 100% Joint and Survivor annuity and have been thoroughly happy with the decision. I have plenty left over from it and social security, which is cost of living adjusted (COLA) to continue saving and investing a bit as well. There's no way that we could spend it and all of my nest egg down before we leave this great Earth. We travel frequently and own late model cars/trucks and a nice multi-level home which is now way too much for just us two, so we will likely be downsizing. I would recommend it to anyone asking who can afford it, has met their goals and is no longer in the "accumulation stage", wanting a stress-free guaranteed funded retirement. Good luck to all with your decisions. I thought I posted this just a short time ago, have they been deleting harmless posts again? Oh well,

It's clear from the serious non-troll posts (i,e take the annuity or lump buyout at 90 years old) and mathematical explanations as well as heavily risk-assessment laden analyses presented on this forum, the majority of serious retirees and lifelong experienced investors prefer the annuity (Don't shoot the messenger, I am still deciding). This, as has been noted, is not the preferred choice for everyone, particularly not a younger individual who has plenty of time to invest, not much savings, and needs to build his/her nestegg. That's a different situation. You feel different about finances the more or less you have and the more time you have left. That also raises a different question, if you have won the game, do you still need to play? Many people make these analyses from the "building" their nestegg viewpoint. Some have no nuts and are cowards with no savings hurling insults. Some consider that phase complete and are doing more spending. What are you "building" for? To continue doing the same? Will you ever just sit back and retire, enjoy your wealth and free yourself from market influences? Or have you not met your goal?

Yet again, more fake posts by the troll bashing the annuity and hurling insults with no mathematical basis to support the poor choice that he made in accepting a buyout. So sad and pathetic. It's must be a miserable existence to only have as a defense for the poor financial decisions that he made in life and jealousy of other's success is to hurl insults, hatred and vitriol.

In the 500 posts here, it has been make abundantly clear that the annuity is the best choice for those who can not manage money or are so afraid of market risks that they find themselves unable to invest the lump even in a very conservative portfolio. For those who take the lump, and invest it in a reasonable way, there is near certainty you will do significantly better over your lifetime. Use any retirement calculation or talk with any certified financial planner, and you will find it is never a good idea to take ANY annuity if you are a stable experienced investor....never!

The pension when taken as an annuity, will always yield positive returns when using the effective overall rate of return and factoring average inflation. Bonds. bond funds and many other investments in that category often will not and will yield a negative return when factoring inflation. Just thought I'd clear up some misinformation posted below.

Well, it's been discussed at length and I think that it's clear from all the comments from the mathematically inclined and the bulk of these posts, that the annuity is a better deal and crushes the lump sum in all retirement calculators and scenarios. There is a troll who continues to post the opposite, I think they call him the "annuity troll", but simply disregard his negative comments and hatred that he spews. The people have spoken.