Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

Everyone has a combination of choices to make that nets out the best outcome for them. Whether it’s the Chevron pre-65 or ACA healthcare, lump sum or annuity pension, taking early distributions from taxable retirement accounts or living frugally off cash hoards until they are 65... why should it concern others so much as to make insulting remarks? People are free to do what they think is best for their present and future.

21wld, There' a lot of discussion on this site that you can look up regarding why "some guy took the pension annuity". It's not just "some guy" it's over half of retirees. The reason is basically that it's actuarially(sp?) equivalent to the lump sum, and in today's market, you cannot get a better rate on an annuity after fees, commissions, etc. That combined with the fact that in many cases people with a decent sized annuity or pension, also have many other assets, are diversified and putting one portion in a plan with a fixed return that can support you 'til death regardless of market outcome is a wise move. When you are 70-75, if you make it, many are not or don't care to be avid investors, nor have the mindset or capability. A lot of youngsters on this site can't understand why one wouldn't pick up the bucket of gold and run off and get that fancy sports car, etc. To start with, many of us have all that already.......... And are at or close to Medicare age.

Oh, and by all means,

" lets just invest to get 20% average returns for the next 10 years, because of course, that just happened so that's like, you know, like, what the market just like, you know, does, you know, lol"

20ztj, That is awesome and I am so happy for you. You are in fact enjoying sub-par health care insurance because you are not able to afford the higher tier plans provided by Chevron. No reason to put lipstick on a pig. I know many good people with families trying to make ends meet who had to do that and know a lot about the quality of service with the exchanges and the mess it is. That's why many providers are bailing out. For a successful Oil & Gas professional who planned well health care insurance is not a big part of ones budget. It does not take deliberate long term calculating and conniving, jumping through hoops to make sure you only can declare so much earned income or fancy tricks to try and out-smart the IRS. It's just called hard work and investing properly. A successful professional who planned well has no need to play poor to receive government assistance that were intended to help those who really need it and provided by tax payers, many who are not very well off themselves. Glad you were afforded these social programs backed by the working class to keep you on your feet in your desperate time of need. Many of us do not want nor need them, can afford the best and have some left over, and wouldn't think twice about it. And I personally wouldn't be comfortable not only mooching off others who earn less, but also relying on a welfare-type system that's on very unstable footing and insolvent. But of course, some people don't mind living in housing projects and accepting food stamps and still sleep like babies. To each his own - Cheers!

One of the advantages of being a Californian is that ACA was implemented early here and is quite stable. No increases for 2018. All the CVX retirees I know are using it except one guy who took the pension annuity for some reason.

@20zjt - So what is your ACA premium for 2018? Based on what I'm seeing from other posters, it looks like it probably went up significantly. The pre-65 CVX plan (ACA gold) that I selected has the exact same cost as last year - less than $10k for the entire year for two adults. So sorry you can't join us and sorry that your great financial planning (living poor to qualify for subsidized ACA, loss of investment return on your hoard of cash, etc.) has gone south.

-20ovr, It’s not a “childish” comeback to say I sleep well at night when in fact I really do. It’s actually very comforting to know that while my spouse have only couple of years to go before turning 65, we are in great health and have sufficient pre taxed funds to live on very well until then. The low taxable footprint we enjoy is no accident. It came from years of careful and diligent financial planning. The accidental reward from all this is the ACA. No one knew this law was coming 9 years ago, but today, some of us can take advantage of it. I’m enjoying such a ACA medical plan that is equivalent in quality to the Chevron PPO Plan, but far less than the $1296 price tag. While I enjoy saving money until 65, our Traditional IRAs and Vanguard 401k are growing faster since no distributions are drawing down the balances.

20mih, With all due respect, I 100% disagree. If you can afford for the beginning of the final chapter in you life to pay for quality, dependable health care and health insurance, that is what you should do, sleep well and content at night and have that peace of mind. (please save the childish come-back that you sleep fine with the cheapest that you can get for someone who doesn't know better, thanks). If you cannot afford to pay for premium, dependable insurance such as what CVX offers for retirees, currently Anthem Blue Cross, etc., then you have other options available to you at lower costs. Those options are available for those who cannot afford to pay for peace of mind. In addition, playing tricks with income to put yourself in the same bracket as low income workers, so that you can stand alongside low income workers and pretend that you deserve for the rest of the country to subsidize you is not an option for anyone with dignity, self respect, and like many of us, who will die with money left over in most cases.

Either get in the food stamp line just because you can legally take from those who make less than you and are less fortunate in many cases, or be a man because you prepared well for your future and are a success. The choice is simple for those who are not pathetic leeches. But you guys keep rationalizing in your own mind why it's OK to take from the poor because you found a loophole.

Stay Classy.

If you can afford to live well enough without touching your taxable retirement sources and are not far from 65 and qualify for a ACA healthcare plan, do just that. Your best bet is to save your money by not enrolling in a Chevron pre-65 medical plan. Wait until you are 65 to join. It’s much less expensive then. If you have no health issues, enroll in the ACA and take advantage of the free annual checkups and preventive exams. Once you turn 65, high medical premiums will be a thing of the past. You can start to dip into your hard earned taxable retirement accounts and live life the way you want and can afford. Never underutilize any benefit you are entitled to. Small sacrifices now for better rewards later is also a wise move.

-20mef: I am not so worried about what others do within the law, although I do agree the ACA needs changes (including rules to get the FIRE folks off the subsidies). Happily I have the option of Chevron pre-65...an option many others do not have (even if one can pay their own way, without group coverage of some sort any real health issue can lead to financial ruin). Even if I was inclined to ask for subsidies, I made too much to have a ROTH-IRA (which sounds like the mechanism most early retirees use the milk the system). Besides as you say my realized gains in any year are a lot more that the $50k...and I rather prefer to live it up in my old age rather than pay poor.

Yes to confirm, similar sort of coverage as Chevron pre-65 with blue cross for self and spouse (both aged 60) is $18k (bronze), $22 (silver) and $27k (gold)...the difference between the levels being co-pays and deductibles. Plus with all that cost one still has to worry the Feds will pull the plug in the exchanges and companies might total pull out leaving you high and dry if you get a preexisting condition of any consequence. No thanks! The relative security of Chevron pre-65 is a much better deal. The reason they call it insurance is to protect you from what you currently do not know you have!

-20tcd, It's very simple. You are much better off staying with the Chevron retiree insurance. Do not labor over it. The only ones who benefit by taking the ACA exchange plans are going bronze, which is bottom of the barrel, and also they need to go on a "no earned income" diet. That's so that they have less than about ~ $27.5k or so actual earned income. You have to really be unsuccessful to not have that from your capital gains, dividends, etc. These guys get on here and brag about that. They get to sponge off of other tax-payers. Yet they have a million or more in their retirement accounts, but cannot spend it. They are so ecstatic about being able to "legally" steal from others(many earning much less than they ever did) that they forget about the obvious. They forget about how much they are sacrificing in the very few years that they have left on this Earth. How pathetic humanity has become that it is a goal to steal and pilfer the tax paid entitlements of your neighbors instead of standing on your own two feet like a man, supporting yourself and your spouse, and living your retirement years giving to others instead of taking from others like a liberal entitled self-important nothing.

"To be a man, a man must be a nonconformist" Ralph Waldo Emerson

Take the high road here. You are a success and give more than you take. That's because you worked hard and earned the ability to do so, unlike those sponging off others on the ACA plans. Those plans will be dismantled in due time anyway since they are fiscally unsustainable.

I was just looking at the expected rates on the Texas (government) ACA exchange and the only gold plan I can find is over 20k for my wife and I plus up another 12k before one hits maximum deductible ... how exactly is that better than staying on Chevron pre-65? I guess I need to look at silver plans before I decide.

1Tkfb, Are you replying to a comment, or describing your personal experience? You seem to know a lot of first hand info about treatment for being a pervert.

Although Serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors have been found to be very effective in some cases like this, with ROTFLMAO-Boy I think it might be better to progress directly to electroconvulsive therapy.

1Slxe, when you look in the mirror to see the reflection of yourself, please do yourself a favor - Keep your clothes on , Loser!!! Do NOT ever take them off again, for your's and everyone else's sake, pervert! Better yet, quit looking at yourself in the mirror AT ALL, or thinking about others doing that which you obviously do. And make an appointment to see a shrink as soon as possible. You desperately need professional help. - Just Saying. (By the way, that's abbreviated "JS" for the internet illiterate, it's not someone's initials, or Jesus Saves)

A sarcastic condescending "Peace be with you" too, asswipe. Do see a shrink, though. You are cracking rapidly.

1Szjq, Yes, I do too. I could not agree more. What I really laugh out loud at specifically, though is when poster 1Qmje, without mentioning any other post, lured out another poster who was stroking himself, acknowledging that he really has no one. No one who agrees with his pathetic, lonely, loser, sociopath pathetic parasitic leech attitude but himself. He is so pathetic that he had to reply to himself, and pat his loser self on the back(or wherever). That pathetic loser was 1Qpon. Now what simple-minded moron would fall for such a ruse? Like saying - "will the pathetic loser idiot without a life who didn't prepare, made the wrong decisions and ended up sponging on Obamacare please raise your hand and quit stroking yourself?" Then the guy says - "Me Me Me That's me!!!!"

Yet he responded to the accusation, although the "lure" targeted no one specifically. It was an anonymous claim about no one in general - HOOK LINE AND SINKER, MORON!!!!!!

ROTFLM(MoFo)AO idiot!!!!!! What a pathetic tool.....

I laugh at losers like -1Sihx who feel compelled to reply to anonymous posts that mock or criticize what they posted. People who waste their time doing this are lumped in with the losers in life.

-1Sihx; When you look in the mirror is there a reflection of yourself...or something else? You may want to reassess your direction.

@1Sjqn, That's so bad for you that you are in the constant agony of trying to keep up with the Jone's and you never can, like in your shoes, obviously, as implied, you keep failing. I feel so bad for you. Keep trying though, maybe one day you can be somebody. You will get no where simply insulting others on this forum, though, as you just did. Try something different, asswipe.

-1Raws: Some day I hope you will find out that living for your own moments is far more satisfying that obsession on what the Jones are doing. Peace be with you.

1Qpon, You are 100% spot on. Many on this forum are butthurt losers who are pathetically svcking away at the government teat through the ACA and are embarrassed about it and would not speak about it in public, but do so on this forum. They did not prepare for their future after retirement and before age 65 and are living in denial. Not only are they leeches and sponge off of the people who work for a living, they are anonymous cowards and get on here to brag smugly about it, something else they would not do in public. Me, I am simply LMAO at them because they are so pathetic. ROTFLMAO! You are so right!

-1Qmje: You are exhibit A. I suspect you're on the public nibble big time and so full of self hate at being a butthurt loser that you lash out like Don Quixote at all the free loaders reflected in the mirror. Mr. ROTFLMAO buttwipe loser.

Yes indeed losers, let's post partisan comments, claim that they are not, then repost as someone else and stroke thyself!!! too funny!!! I'll get some popcorn.

'Til then, stay classless, parasitic leeches, Let's hope that you don't run out of other people's money, because you were obviously not successful enough to have enough of your own to support yourself.

Thank you -1Pfhz. You see things clearer than most here and at least admit the truth. BTW, I’m sure you meant to type “hyper-partisanship” but the auto correction on your device has a mind of its own.

Most of those posting here about "playing" the ACA are not committing fraud, but rather are using legitimate loopholes to their gain. Whatever you think of the intent of the ACA, it is simply a poorly written law. Unfortunately in these times of hyper-partnership even the most obvious things that need to be fixed in our government are gridlocked. Let's hope the surpreme court finds that the current aggressive gerrymandering (by both parties) is unconstitutional so that more moderates can be elected.

-1Pvpn, you might be confusing morals with the law. Anyone who can qualify for the ACA can have it. That’s the law. You might think, morally, some people shouldn’t have it? Sorry. That’s not the way it works.

-1Pvpn: Just to be clear, your home planet is Earth?

1Oggu You posted;

"Funny how many folks receiving food stamps and disability payments also will say they never received welfare and look in distain at those that do..."at least I worked for a while, unlike those undeserving freeloaders". The "freeloaders" it turns out being mostly the truly handicapped and mentally disabled"

In 63 years, I have never met anyone nor heard of anyone who fits that description at all. For instance, a person needing aid looking with disdain at one of their own, or a person who lumps freeloaders, liars, cheats and frauds, like people cheating the ACA, with people legitimately needing aid, such as handicapped or poor, struggling people.

It is some sort of a mission of yours to propagate myths, lies and fallacies to promote your false liberal narrative? If a program is plagued with fraud and abuse, like many entitlement programs are, that's simply a fact that you liberals can't seem to grasp. Claiming that there are some legitimate cases, which there invariably are, does not automatically negate the fraudulent ones. You need to come up with a better argument or at least a real one. Next time, try the truth and some actual facts. You will appear much less ridiculous.

Certified Public Azzhole, someone who has dedicated his/her life to making other people miserable, including themselves.

I like the reply from the CPA here who has wisely invested her hard earned savings in ways that generate massive interest and dividends, giving her huge tax bills and ineligibility for ACA. How's that working for you?

-1Obgm, you sound like a jealous child. It’s people like you that end up at the bottom of the heap. I have no reservations that people who are astute with their money know how to spend it and take advantage of every opportunity to keep more if it.

The investment wiz(ret)ard who is pulling $ out of a tax deferred Roth when his taxable income is low to save 10k a year on insurance premiums knows nothing about tax efficiency nor retirement fund spend strategy. Also, that big wad of cash sitting around that also helps him pretend to be poor, well it is making squat in returns in today's bull market. Let the idiot gloat, he'll end up paying for his ACA subsidies and them some with his lost investment income and future taxes.

"Are Roth Distributions Counted Towards MAGI? Qualified withdrawals from a Roth IRA don’t count toward modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) for ObamaCare, but taxable IRA withdrawals do. Withdrawals of your original contributions are never taxable income (as you already paid taxes on them), therefore taking them back out doesn’t affect your MAGI."... so from my reading it would seem that principle out of a Roth does not count but gains out do count. I really do not know the details as I made too much to ever have a Roth. I agree with the last poster that ACA subsidies are welfare no matter how you figure it...no disgrace if you need it to survive but. Funny how many folks receiving food stamps and disability payments also will say they never received welfare and look in distain at those that do..."at least I worked for a while, unlike those undeserving freeloaders". The "freeloaders" it turns out being mostly the truly handicapped and mentally disabled... but as long as you find someone "worse" than you all means are justified I guess.

1Nqys, My average "Interest and Dividends" (in your words) are so far over $25k that it will immediately nauseate you and most others on this forum. And I don't mean the last few years run up. In fact, it is far enough that the Gold plan that I pay for is not even a drop in the bucket and I don't even think about it, nor would I even remotely consider receiving the destined for failure ACA, or any other substandard or subsidized Health Care or Insurance. You guys should spend more time & effort trying to succeed financially instead of trying to fraud the system which you wouldn't have to do. That's your problem.

On another note, why are so many on this thread ashamed to admit that the tax-payer backed Obamacare subsidies that they receive are public assistance? What else would you call it? The monies collected through the program itself certainly don't support it. The math doesn't work.

"MAGI includes IRA distributions, but there are deductions that can lessen it: certain contributions to retirement plans, alimony, moving expenses, and self-employment expenses". At any rate, best not get your estate planning advice from laid off butthurt loses...consult a qualified tax advisor... because a clow back of ACA subsidies plus tax penalty could painful... very painful.

1Njom is full of BS. Retirement or pension income is all generally included as income to determine eligibility for ACA subsidies, but qualified distributions from a designated Roth account are NOT as included as income. Not convinced? Slide down the income list at the official site, jerk. The number of trolls on this site is nauseating.

https://www.healthcare.gov/income-and-household-information/income/

Just to be clear, Roth withdraws do not count as income on your taxs but do count in the MAGI calculation for a ACA subsidy. You can lie about or hide your true income in a lot of ways (and commit all sorts of other types of fraud and robbery to get ahead), but I was discussing what is legal. You may get away with fraud, you may not, and if you get wacked you may well get off by playing dumm given all the confusion with changing rules. I like to think I have some base morals, and besides I have enough that I have no need to steal from the commons. Your mileage may vary.

Keep your money invested in ways which do not generate interest and dividends over $25,000 and you can get ACA Silver for like $45/month/pp while withdrawing and spending $200,000 per year. You will owe taxes on cap gains but not principal withdrawn.

If I take out $200,000 and $50,000 is from a gain, then I have a problem. So I only withdraw $100,000 from the brokerage account and $100,00 from a Roth IRA or Roth 401K. Voila - huge spending, minimal income, minimal tax and minimum ACA cost.

Rinse and repeat until 65 then start spending from the non-Roth IRA, 401K and more brokerage money.

I see your point for preferring or needing to stay in the pre-65 Chevron medical plan, 1Nhww. Nobody should be calling that a wrong move. The ACA though is available for those who qualify for subsidies, whether because those people have taxable incomes of under $40,000 or if a person has millions in untouched tax sheltered retirement accounts and are able to live on income they have already paid taxes on (bank savings, Roth IRA) or secretive cash businesses whether only a fraction of the real income is declared. In this country, it’s a constant game of Whack-a-Mole with the IRS and tax laws. To win at this game, you have to always be one or two steps ahead.

What Nqib describes is exactly why the 1% pay less in tax than wage earners (despite being in a nominally higher tax bracket) and why all "gains" should be treated the same under tax law (including inheritance). What he does not seem to understand is minimizing tax and maximizing any ACA subsidy are not the same thing, because the latter depends on total income (including wages, capital, dividends, interest, Roth withdrawals, selling stuff, etc.). The only way to get an ACA subsidy is to not spend money or use moneys that have already been taxed and are linked to few unrealised investment gains (sell stocks that are losers, tap money accounts, or sell gold buried in the basement...all vehicles that missed out on the 14% average stock gains this year). Me, I rather hold a winning stock profolio and in turn pay my fair share for healthcare. I am staying with Chevron pre-65 because, I want gold coverage, I have a preexisting condition (nothing major, but...), and I do not trust the Republicans in charge in Washington (who seem incapable of fix, repeal, or replace).

http://www.gocurrycracker.com/obamacare-optimization-vs-tax-minimization/