Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

-1Nqjb, what the F are you talking about, moron?

It is perfectly feasible to spend $100 or $200k per year with minimal income tax (e.g. 10-15%). Max cap gains tax would be 15% and that is if you were living 100% off your taxables. Mix in some tax advantaged account drawdowns, like Roth or 401k and you can get it pretty low. Be sure your taxable investments are not spitting out any dividends to push your income up. And god help you if you took the pension annuity as you are locked in to all sorts of taxes.

It sounds like our friend here that "plays poor" to get subsidized health ins. by drawing on his funds with minimal capital gains will not be much effected by Trumps recent kill of ACA insurers supports (some potential smallish increased copay), whereas those in these individual market that pay full price will get hit in the head. No one said life is fair. My only assuage is what type of terrible investor has a lot of money sitting around with no unrealized gains in the current market... he must chun his stocks in a way that generates huge early taxes that probably offset any ACA benefits.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/13/news/economy/trump-obamacare-subsidies/index.html

That’s right, @1Musz. We’re talking about the ACA, that has subsidies. $52/month in premiums is no joke.

$52/month premium ... you must be joking, you can't buy lunch for that without public subsidies!

-1Morb: I think it will be a mess: A lot of folks will the hurt. The Republicans own this any way you look at it! As the storys of folks suffering for lack of health care and rural county hospitals shuttering continue to pile up, you think folks are really going to give a rats a-- about the one percent and their inheritance tax worries? The republicans agenda is now dead in the water...which is not surprising as they had no new ideas to bring to the table. Now the focus by all shifts to amendment 25!

The purpose of Trump’s action today on yanking the Obamacare cost sharing subsidies to insurers was to forcibly bring the Democrats to the table to find a common ground fix to the ACA.

@1Lkyz, you might be correct about the ACA premiums going up for 2018 because Trump pulled the cost sharing subsidies to insurers, but let’s see by how much this will affect us here in Texas once the 2018 Plan preview becomes available online October 24. There’s an estimate out there saying that premiums may only go up 20% for 2018, then increase by 25% by 2020. Frankly, I think a 20% bump on a net $52/month premium is a negligible hit to the pocket. If it comes to that, you won’t hear me complaining. I think the changes being made by Trump will hit principally those Blue states the most, the ones with State-run marketplace exchanges not the ones on the Federal exchanges, like Texas.

-1Lerl: A little more complex than that. Current ACA plan can charge you 5x the cheapest rate on the same plan due to age, so this offsets the differential somewhat (if ACA goes away then they can charge you any age penalty they wish. Also I am guessing the Chevron plan has more healthy people considering its age brackets ... people who received good preventative care with early intervention previous to joining the chevron retirement care pool.

More to the point, I expect ACA exchanges to become very unstable now that Trump pulled the subsidies for those who make less than 30k and is allowing the option for substandard plans that do not require the minimum bentifits. Those who jumped to an ACA plan may soon find that nothing is available at any price for them.

Everyone’s situation is different, from their age, to their health, to their financial condition and to the choices they want to make. I’m not going to criticize anyone’s stance on what insurance they want to purchase or not purchase. I concern myself with my own decisions and not those of others. Maybe everyone else can do the same.

Ah, so CVX puts you in the retiree pool with a lot of older and generally less healthy people. No wonder the premiums are horrific. ACA puts one in the general population so the terms are much better.

So why should I spend my hard earned money on health insurance? I never get sick and now that Trump removed the mandate penalty there is really no need. If I do get sick some day I will sign up then.

@1Lkkz - Unfortunately, it doesn't work the way you described. After you retire Chevron puts you into an entirely different risk pool that only includes retired folk. Since this is a much older risk pool, the total premiums are quite a bit higher. How much Chevron pays depends on how many points you had when you retired (or whether you were grandfathered in), exactly what Chevron was paying toward employees' plans when you retired, and which plan you choose. For example, next year CVX will pay about $1000.00 per month toward my plan, while I will pay about $1400.00 (assuming I keep my current plan). So extrapolating from what you're paying as an employee doesn't tell you a whole lot.

ACA Exchange plans are "real" insurance and just like The Chevron plan you can choose gold-level converse (at a price). Many (most?) getting there insurance though the ACA are not subsidized, but rather work of small companies or are independents that can not get group pricing elsewhere. Unlike repeatly suggested by the long winded Trumpolite poster, getting insurance though the ACA is not sinonomus with getting public assistance.

Yes, it's clear after reading the entirety of this thread that the CVX retiree insurance seems like the way to go at this time for a solid, normal, reliable policy if you need/prefer that in your later years. Can someone who is using the "paid for by others who work for a living plan" ACA and made significant claims tell us how it is working for them? Any issues? Is it harder or easier to get claims paid than real insurance? I know first hand what my co-pays are, deductibles, prescription costs through Expresscripts, etc are well within reason and have been for years. I have a pre-existing condition, though not life threatening, I may have a few more visits and meds than some. I don't like rolling the dice with my health and also I pay my own way, I am not a social parasite like some don't mind being on others.

1Kvju, Yes sir, I am very close to 65 and we both have very good company plans. No need for "wishing for relief" You wish for yourself. You should have planned better for your future. I did. Maybe President Trump can save you with his new provisions and his repeal of the socialist abortion experiment called the ACA. Perhaps you can become another dependent upon those who worked hard and planned well for their future. Pray that a program is still available for you to sponge off of others who are working or worked long and planned well for their future instead of blowing it all away. Those of us who worked hard, prepared and saved don't need to wish and pray.

The ACA Plans are all private insurance companies. Some are national in size and others are regional in their service area. They are all different and offer a variety of plans and coverages that should suit most everyone. Don’t just look at price as your guide. If you or someone in the family are a sickly person, choose a Plan that services your needs. If you are healthy and run a low risk for serious or continuous care, then choose a Plan that covers mainly catastrophic medical services. All plans in the ACA already must cover the 10 mandated services in the ACA law at no cost or copayment to you. So, take advantage of all the free preventive care you are paying for in the basic plan. Get your annual checkups, get a preventative colonoscopy if you are 50 or older, if you are a woman, go get your free annual mammograms and health screenings. If you pick an ACA Plan that is low cost, try to choose a silver plan rather than a bronze one. The silver plans get you more bang for the buck. Here in Houston, there is a regional insurance carrier that is an HMO, but the range of services and selection of PCP and Specialists is pretty good. If you haven’t joined the ACA yet, don’t wait to preview the 2018 plans starting on October 24. Go to Healthcare.gov now any preview the 2017 plans. Just enter your age and estimated income for next year and see the existing plans. You’ll be able to dig into the summaries of any plan out there and get an idea of the monthly premiums. Each insurance company operates similarly, but each has its own administration, so results can vary, but that’s just the way things are. Know the rules and you should be fine.

We are a family of two still with CVX. Monthly I pay a bit over $200 and CVX around $800. Sounds like after retirement I could expect maybe $900 and CVX $100. Agree it would be good to hear from those using ACA about what they like or don't like about it. ACA seems like a good initial choice since one can always switch back to CVX plan later.

-1Lumk: Think it through. The insurance on ACA exchanges is offered by private for profit companies; For the most part the same ones that offer employer-paid insurance plans. That said, with Trumps latest presidential orders to undermine the ACA expect much higher rates next year and increased potential that the exchanges will become unstable as companies decide it not worth the risk to provide insurance in a system where the rules constantly change. At which point you will not be able to find any affordable insurance if you have preexisting conditions. Even if I could save a few bucks today with ACA insurance (not subsidized), it is not worth the risk to me. I am sticking with a Chevron Pre-65 plan, which I am confident will be arround over the next several years.

ACA clearly seems like the way to go at this time. Can someone who is using ACA and made significant claims tell us how it is working for them? Any issues? Is it harder or easier to get claims paid than private (profit) insurance?

You said it all, 1Keod, with “I happen to be fortunate to have low-cost company provided insurance and don't need the ACA.” News Flash: Anyone would be fortunate to have low-cost company provided insurance. But that’s not the case for all pre-65 retirees, 1Keod. You best keep your Chevron job or have a working spouse to add you to their plan, else you will be wishing for relief from expensive healthcare insurance premiums and looking for the lawful ACA to lower your costs.

Thanks for that first-hand honest breakdown of all of the options available. You can lie about your income, or hide it , or play poor and be a parasitic leech on society simply for the benefit of sponging off others, or you can be a man, pay your way and enjoy your retirement that you worked hard and saved for. It's amazing what hoops people will jump through just to be able to say that "the government (my neighbors tax dollars for a program that I didn't even contribute to) are paying for me"

We pay all of our life for SS and Medicare. Don't confuse that with being an ACA leech any more than accepting Red Cross donations when you don't need them. I have known people who have done that after storms and floods, etc. who didn't need the aid. Pathetic bottom feeding mooches. Scum of the Earth who are taking from those less fortunate than them. It's different if you are truly struggling to feed your family, etc. That's what the ACA is for. But those are not the classless braggarts who post here continuously. If you are a well-off CVX retiree and simply stealing from your less fortunate neighbors because you can, you get no sympathy, jealousy, admiration or even the slightest bit of respect on this forum, because all you are is a classless POS low-life. No. No one is "jealous" of anyone who leads a classless life of stealing from others less fortunate. So save the stupid come-backs, prick.

I happen to be fortunate to have low-cost company provided insurance and don't need the ACA.

@1Kjgb, here’s my comments:

1- Strike one. The Chevron contribution for any retiree is nowhere close to $1230. In fact, it’s not even that high for an active employee.

2 - Strike two. Your assumption that if a person is on an ACA Plan, they are not being honest with their income. In fact, the IRS is the entity that determines who is being “honest” with their income as it relates to the ACA.

3 - There’s no strike three. The last thing you said that was accurate is the fact the HDHP is the plan that makes the most economic sense. The sad thing is that it’s by design. The healthcare insurance industry is ripping everyone off and this is their way of corralling employees and retirees who can’t get ACA subsidies. Have you kept track of which 11 sectors in the S&P perform the best? For a good while, it has been the healthcare industry. They are milking both the taxpayers (gov’t subsidies) and the employer plans.

My pre65 letter came today. Premiums exactly the same as last year. HDHP, on balance is the preferred plan. $5400 family deductible, $800 monthly, Chevron contribution $1230 monthly (60% not 10%).

Other options:

HMO: $2450/month. Who in their right mind would consider this. I think it's an IQ test.

PPO: $4500 more per year than HDHP. Deductible is $3000 vs $5400 for HDHP. $2400 difference. Under no circumstances would you be better off (on family plan) with PPO plan.

HDHP Basic: catastrophic insurance with the much higher deductible but only a little less premium than HDHP.

Seems to me there is an incentive to take HDHP as it is best deal for both sides under almost all circumstances.

ACA (Obamacare) :Assuming a certain amount of honesty on income (pensions etc), the premiums in Houston are far higher than CVX and the deductibles are totally unreasonable. This assumes >$50k annual income and the plans leave a lot to be desired.

If you're on CVX plan now and drop it you risk uncertainty of ACA and cannot get back in until 65.

So, in conclusion, I think by far the best option is HDHP for pre65 within the Chevron plans. Go ACA at your own risk. If it's better for you the chances are you're not being totally honest about your income and means and your integrity is in the balance.

Incidentally, a family member is employed by a major medical supply company (twice the number of CVX employees) and the majority of their employees and retirees take the HDHP option. Coincidence?

Comments....

1Kkyc, yes indeed lol. You keep looking in the mirror and telling yourself that. Everyone is jealous of you for having to depend on government assistance. They all want to be you!!! Cup half full!!

@1Khsi, jealous eh? I thought so. I think you’re the one living in a trailer.

1Kzlz, You remind me of a pathetic uneducated loser liberal who cannot spell, nor form a coherent sentence, much less a logical construct, since you have no idea what that is. In any event, keep focusing on insulting others, particularly those less fortunate than you, that has gotten you where you are today, why stop?

1Ksda, Youre right. My health is the most important thing in my life and I treat it as such. I eat well, exercise and stay fit. At 61, I’m retired and healthy. For me, pissing away my hard earned money on expensive healthcare premiums is simply a waste. No sir, it’s the ACA for me until it’s repealed or I reach 65. Only then, will I change over to the Chevron post-65 Retiree Medical. I don’t spend money on “just in case”. I spend more on something when I’m likely to need it. Right now, the ACA does fine for my needs. Your situation may be different if you’re unhealthy.

-1Ksda: Is it really nessisary to keep making up long winded false narratives about the "other" (Anonymous) people that post here...are your agreements really so weak that they can not be expressed in a logical construct? You remind me a great deal of Trump!

-1Jswv, I have none, or very few complaints and only minor. I also love the various healthcare and healthcare insurance choices that we have here in the good ol' US. For instance, there are 4 plans for each in the CVX retiree insurance alone, and several more outside of that. I was responding to the person who was complaining like a whining little baby below about how high his or her PPO cost was and how much better the socialized countries with the (reportedly) inferior healthcare like Canada is, you know the little sniveling pathetic liberal anti-American loser below. He or she is the typical liberal who thinks that everything is wrong with the country and it needs to be "fixed" to suit his or her needs, always at someone else's expense. That's pretty much how they operate. Always trying to figure out what they think that the best uses for "other people's money" should be. And then there's the person who believes that simply by being born you have a right to the latest, modern health care procedures, provided by others, for free. That's a different type of deluded individual. But no complaints from me. I am happy with my healthcare and insurance. I don't mind paying for a better product !!! (than Canadian stand in line welfare care).

Your health is the most important thing in your life - treat it as such!

"It's simply astounding to all of us why someone like you would choose to remain in the USA"... simple answer to that, because it is my country. Why do you stay given all your complaints?

@1Jsnv, It's simply astounding to all of us why someone like you would choose to remain in the USA with our outrageously expensive semi-free market, partially socialized health plans and services! You could easily move to Canada or elsewhere with fully socialized medicine! What's not astounding is why many Canadians come here for surgeries and major medical events. It's clear in all of their posts and stories. I can't blame them either! You get what you pay for.

1Iprc, Their capital gains are taxed no different than your capital gains. I have no problem with that as long as you are OK with having all of your capital gains taxed like earned income from here on out. That of course includes interest and growth of anything in any of your investment accounts, much of which you were taxed on once already. Sounds fair, right?

There are a few Silver-level ACA plans still available in the Houston marketplace that provide an excellent balance between the medical services, monthly premiums and annual deductible maximums. If you can qualify for the ACA, changes are good you can come out ahead with an ACA Plan until you are 65. Chevron’s Open Enrollment doesn’t end until October 27 this year. The ACA Open Enrollment doesn’t begin until November 1, but you will be able to preview the ACA Plans and premiums a few days before October 27 in time to make a decision.

-1Jkaf: Exactly correct. Despite the cost, Chevron's plan is very competitive with ACA plans (and indeed may well be the best deal out there... hard to know because plans have so many small differences that could become huge in the event you really got sick...cancer or something). More to the point I expect Chevron's plan to remain reasonable in future (as reasonable as one can hope in our health care system with astronomical cost structure), where as the exchanges (ACA, replaced ACA, or whatever) as much more uncertain. Note that I am not talking about subsidized ACA plan costs...not relevant to me personally.

Before you complain about the high cost of Chevron's pre-65 plan be sure you check at the actual (unsubsidized) cost of coverage for someone in their 60s. Our friends who are that age think our policy is a bargain, as they pay $2500 to $3500 a month (depending on details of their plan). The lower premiums have deductibles that are 5 times or more than the Chevron plan. If you don't believe me check it out on your local ACA website. And that's with the ACA's limits on age-based rating. If Trump et al ever actually repeal ACA, it will be much higher.

-1Jstq: great idea, as long as you are sure neither you or yours will get sick between now and when you turn 65! ...but, then again, if I knew so much about the future why would I buy insurance at all?

Not true, 1Jezr. You don’t have to sign up now or lose it. You can sign up at 65 when it’s much less expensive. If you are already in one of the Chevron retiree healthcare plans and drop out, only then are you locked out forever from returning. Please post information you are knowledgeable about.

"Why would anyone sign up for these expensive plans?"...because when Trump kills off ACA the Chevron plan will be the only thing available, and if you do not enroll now you are out forever!

So even with the coveted 90 points, CVX retiree medical covers a max of about 10% of premium costs which range from $500 to $2800 per month. Seems like 90 points ain't worth squat, nor is the plan. Why would anyone sign up for these expensive plans??? Lunacy.