Do expats still get all those extravagant tax free alloances in this tough business environment for oil? It makes a lot of sense to cut back on those.
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Wow, a lot of posts below from people who have OBVIOUSLY never been an expat and have no idea what it's all about. A few things for you to note (from the viewpoint of someone who was an expat in 5 different locations):
1) Expats have NOT been immune to the recent layoffs. In fact, we have been especially hard hit. In many locations the expat population has been reduced by 75 or 80%. Some have been sent back to their home country to work (me included, before I got laid off), but many were simply released while there, then repatriated to their home countries.
2) It's possible there is one, but unless you are an executive, I don't know of ANY locations where Chevron provides everything to you free of charge (housing, car, driver, maids, cooks, etc.). The provide a housing subsidy (as well as a housing deduction offsetting it), and YOU pay the company for your car and driver and YOU pay the maid and cook (if you have one) out of your own pocket. (I suppose someplace like Escravos, Nigeria or Tengiz, Khz. could be considered all expenses paid - but you're there on rotational status because no family would consider going there, and I wouldn't consider the Escravos chow hall to be "fine dining".)
3) I've worked in multiple overseas locations and here in the US. The workload was definitely higher overseas. (We worked 10 to 16 hours a day over there, and did NOT get every other Friday off, and quite often not even the whole weekend. In Lekki we were EXPECTED to work at least half days on Sunday.) I've seen tons of people wash out of their expat assignments in the first year (and even more only do one assignment and go home never to consider another) - they just couldn't handle it.
4) As others have pointed out below, you have to be much more self-sufficient and better at planning ahead overseas. Not only did you have to perform multiple support roles for yourself, but it sometimes takes up to 6 months to get things from the US or Aberdeen ordered, shipped, through Customs, and delivered. If you forgot something, too bad and pack your bags; because after they're done paying the expediting charges (if that's even possible), you're likely going to get sacked.
5) Yes, as others have pointed out below, the experience the expats bring pays for itself. I've seen multiple field operations (on multiple continents) be paralyzed by indecision and inaction for days (at $100's of thousands of dollars a day to millions a day), be solved by a senior expat flying there, taking charge, and sorting it out in hours.
6) Last, but not least, expat incentives aren't free gifts showered upon those lucky enough to go. They are incentives to GET you to go and in most places you EARN them.
When is the last time many of you below complaining about expat incentives spent 11 months straight (or more) away from your friends and family? (Even in a nice location, let along a sh#@le in the middle of a malaria infested jungle.)
You're not just missing out on shopping, food, restaurants, movies, and visiting with friends; you're missing out on weddings, funerals, graduations, ball games and events, etc. You're getting pictures of it on Facebook (assuming your Internet connection is working that day) or phone calls instead of living your life and making memories with those friends and family.
Now think about missing out on all of that for YEARS and YEARS.
Short version: Don't be talking about reducing expat incentives unless and until you've been there and done that yourself. We EARN those benefits and the experience provided saves the company money in the long run. If you're just jealous, then apply and go try it out yourself. THEN, you will have a right to complain if you think they're paying you too much and treating you too well.
I'm willing to bet you won't.
I wish housing, maid and chauffeur were paid for in my expat assignment, but they aren't. Another clueless poster spouting off on things they don't know about.
@pliw, you have a rather unrealistically high opinion of your own worth. Market abounds with expats laid off by competitors. They will work for less than half the allowances you are getting. Good luck!
Why would anyone favor US employees over expats? We simply have too many people in the US for the low levels of activity anywhere outside the Permian. A more likely scenario is increased competition for the few talented expats available to run important businesses in overseas locations during tough times.
@oeum, very well said. At this price of oil, Chevron has to borrow money to pay these lavish premiums and allowances to the expats. By cutting the allowances of the expats to reasonable levels, you could save the jobs of US employees, at least one US employee per expat if not more. Chevron needs to pay attention to this glaring injustice and correct it immediately.
Yes they are still getting practically everything for free, including up to 50% salary premium in most overeas locations. Inagine that in these hard times? A single person can actually bank all of their regular salary and live like royalty off the 50% gross up, especially when their housing, maid and chauffeur service are provided free of charge. I call that an abuse of company resources. For each expat abroad, one US employee supporting a family will be laid off.
@oguz, But of course. We couldn't survive without guys like you. Good, hard working personnel, proud expats. Guys and Gals who don't mind working in adverse conditions, putting out that extra effort, contributing 120%. Awesome. The company cannot run without people who carry the lions share of the load. You keep on keeping on, buddi, and I'll be over here watching some Aggie football every weekend and havin' me an extra large deluxe A1 Bacon Cheeseburger and a Royal Ultimate Choco Brownie Xtreme Blizzard®, and collecting my fat paycheck on top of that!
You guys calling for expat allowance cuts better be careful what you ask for because it is a two-way street. Make all the cuts then MCBU will be run by a bunch of curry munchers from Bangladesh because cost savings and stuff.
Make Bangladesh Great Again
Just because you chicken st losers can't imagine living overseas where you don't have 24 hr access to Texas Aggie football and Dairy Queen doesn't mean those of us that can adapt should pay the cost for your laziness. All the expats I work with can run circles around any DWEP sad sack. You people don't have the first clue on how to handle adverse conditions. If the contractor doesn't have the right equipment sitting on a shelf waiting for your call out you st your pants. For expats that is an every day occurrence.
Next PDC, put in for an expat assignment and then cry your tears of shame when you get rejected.
Sincerely,
Proud Expat
Nepk, that is possibly because of the age/experience gap in Chevron's staff demographics. As is well known, there are the very experienced who have moved on in the recent spate of layoffs opting to take their one year salary, and then those with less experience at the other end who are the ones mostly left behind. There is a sort of talent vacuum in between. That is typical of all oil companies because of the Little or no hiring in the industry over a 15 year period spanning the late 80's and 90's. Hiking salaries and allowances will not rectify that problem. Has to addressed to through a combination of contractors and more systematic development of local talent. A different approach to the problem is needed -- not this perpetuation of the expat class within the organization. The recent PDC experience could also be a temporary anomaly. Nice try anyway, you must be one of those greedy expats who will never be satisfied with the endless allowances you are getting. We need to send Mr. Bunyan your way.
Considering many expat position postings were not filled in the last PDC due to a lack of qualified candidates it seems allowances should go up if anything. You know, that pesky supply / demand thing at work.
An expat in NMA is much cheaper than local staff. Why isn't anyone advocating cutting their stuff?
@mdtg- I appreciate the info. I stand corrected. Thanks.
@mpjt, Workloads vary even within the US domestic operations in terms of one person having to to do much more work than what is normally expected from time to time, what with all the headcount reduction and everything. That doesn't mean you double their salary because of their extra work. May be they may get a well deserved pat on the back from their boss if they are lucky. By the same token, if expats have to take extra workload because of reduced staff, give them a nice award of appreciation, a dinner for two or whatever. But cut back the allowances, you must.
@mxwd, thanks for your comment. Actually, the following is what I found out through a little google search:
The correct phrase is “beck and call.” If you are at someone's beck and call, you respond immediately whether he or she beckons or calls; it implies complete subservience.
It's an old phrase, originating in the late 1800s, during a time when “beck” was used to mean “beckon.”
With the drastic reduction in expats, the remaining few have doubled or tripled their workload. If anything, the allowances should be dramatically increased. Our expats return vest value.
@memc, that's "beckon call", not beck and call.
Cutting the allowNces to reasonable levels does not mean turning the operations over to locals. It is really a question of using the expat workforce in a judicious manner while rewarding them equitably. They really do not have to live like colonialists with multitude of servants at their beck and call. Jeez, these expats and their attitudes!
Yep, they should turn over SASBU to the locals. You wouldn't be able to keep toilet paper in the restrooms because it would all be stolen in a matter of hours.
I have to agree with the argument for cutting expat allowances or cutting the number of expats. I have seen far too many expats who just seem to be expats for the sake of being an expat. They offer no more value in the position than a local person could. A pure waste of money.
Msaa - You're the one off track. The Leninists tried what you advocate, and it did not work out so well.
Lkyf, you are going offtrack here. Using more foreign bodies defeats the whole purpose. We do not want to pursue a policy that would hurt US employees. The very purpose of cutting expat allowances to reasonable levels is to be able to avoid staff layoffs in the US as much as possible. Would you rather fire two Chevroids in the US to allow one deadwood expat abroad continue his princely perks ? I Would rather cut expat allowances. Period.
@lkyf- Chevron has been working on that (your suggestion) a little bit at a time. In about 7 years, you'll need to speak Mandarin or Hindi to get employed here.
What a bunch of envious, jealous hypocrites, arguing that they want to cut ExPat allowances to save Chevron money. Heck, might as well extend that argument and source all of our high-tech skilled jobs to professionals in India and China. That will definitely reduce personnel costs even more - all in the interest of cutting high costs, right?
Thanks. These kinds of lavish allowances are irresponsible and mind boggling!
@jpcr, enjoy. You worked hard (I assume) as many of us in HOU and SR and other places in the US do. But you were more than well compensated unlike any of us. 25 years as an expat is easily worth 10 million dollars in extra cash. During the good times certainly Chevron could afford all of this. But now Chevron is borrowing and paying these expensive tax protected expat allowances, just as it keeps borrowing to pay the dividends. Very prudent management I suppose! Shareholders take note.
Thank you Chevron. Been a good run - 25 years as ExPat in Kazakhstan, Angola, Nigeria, Thailand, and Indonesia. Like to think that I've made a difference - tough assignments but compensation adjusted to be commensurate with the sacrifices of my family and I. Off to U.K., probably my last assignment. You get what you pay for.
Exactly we need several Paul Bunyans for Chevron. Serious deadwood problem.
Paul Bunyan strikes again!
There are always some exceptions and yes, a few expats deliver tremendous value to organization. But all the rest? Dead weight!
Expats in many locations make a lot of sense and deliver their weight in gold on Chevron projects. I have seen it in many locations where seasoned expats contributed the lions share of the workload and brainpower. Believe me, you don't want average people or DWEP types in these roles and the right guys are worth every penny of the premium.
What I don't get is why on earth we have so many expats in Houston, Perth and Aberdeen. These locations have competent staff. The challenges seem modest. Why pay extra???
You would think that CVX HR and management types who like to look at data could do a simple supply and demand analysis for the various ex-pat assignments / premiums. If over 3, 5 or 10 year periods, the demand for ex-pat assignments is much greater than the number of jobs available, then maybe the premiums should be reduced. The analysis should also be done for specific locations as well.
@evcm, at the minimum the allowances should be slashed by 50%. That would still be very generous. But I would give you guys the benefit of the doubt. As for non-expats, they are being paid no allowances. So where is the question of slashing anything! It is even egregious that you would suggest something like that. Obviously you have a vested interest as a career expat (exparasite) living on the fruits of hard labor from non- expats.
Yes, let's pat the thieves, people without morals and parasites on the back. After all, this is the forum for d---beats and laid-off Chevroid losers. Losers admiring other losers, criminals and social deviants and misfits - LOL!!
If you are fortunate enough to still be employed, have your benefits been cut at all? Are you advocating any kind of cuts in your salary and benefits? What is equitable to you for the expats? Let's hear some numbers. What are you willing to sacrifice and what should the expats be getting?
My congratulations to the guy who is able to use the ACA to his advantage. Not everyone is able to get that kind of a deal. Kudos also to the lucky dude who is pulling down a double annuity for two years already. It's great to read of people's successes and strokes of luck.
The person who qualified for ACA made some smart choices and I congratulate him. But this thread is about expats, who continue to thrive with all their allowances in this tough business environment while their poor colleagues at home are desperately trying to hold on to their jobs. Chevron should be more equitable and fair, drastically cut these allowances and the number of expat positions.
I laugh at all you discontent posters who complain, complain, complain. That's very telling of how you feel about yourself. Happy and content people don't complain too much. Look at @dtdg, who sees things as they are. He's 100% right.
Why are you all complaining about the person who qualified for the ACA plan? His annual income qualified him for the plan as he described (I don't know the details of the plan). He took the plan that he deems best for him. I don't see him doing anything illegal here. If he wants to live frugally he can choose that. If he wants to travel the world and eat steaks every night he can choose that too.
If you are interested in combating frauds there are many more places to find that -- Medicare fraud by doctors and hospitals, military contractors, corporations getting the best tax deals because their paid-for congressmen wrote the tax codes, and so on.
Enjoy your 4th of July!
To the lucky, smart, and game player dbz1, enjoy your creamed peas on toast, black label beer and evenings in your double-wide because that's all you can afford on your self imposed, subsidy eligible and bare bones earned income. Obviously wifey is gone since she would not put up with such crap. What's the lost opportunity cost of all that cash stuffed in your futon?