Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

"Thou shalt not steal." Mean anything to you?

@wxkk, I've previously explained the reasons why I keep the duplicate payments in a separate account. I should not have to repeat myself.

@GEjhx1M-wnuv, They will probably keep sending you double money for as long as you keep Stealing it from your fellow retirees' funding by not informing them of their error. You should thank the other retirees on this forum for pitching in to your kids trust fund or whatever, and allowing you to live your life anonymously as a thief.

Today is April 29, the last business day of the month. Just to provide everyone an update, I received my Chevron pension annuity direct deposit. Again, Chevron has sent me double my actual amount for the 11th month in a row. I transferred the duplicate amount into my separate account once more. How long will this dumbass company keeping doing this until they catch on?

Very soon Chevron "left standing" notifications will be going out to hundreds of my ex-colleagues. Start calling your HR Business Partners and make sure they tell their HR Renuneration Group to update their tired old Death by PowerPoint presentation to substantially cover the SS Offset topic with useful examples, guidelines and explanation to ensure the layperson understands how it works. After contacting HR, report back here to let us know what they said. The more calls they receive on this subject, the more importance it will be given. All employees left standing need to go to the HR Retirement presentation and hammer on this point.

@4bcc, if I recall correctly, the difference between the SSA and Chevron figures was 22%. I wouldn't rely on my numbers to formulate a factor to use in your case. Each individual's case is or can result differently. Keep in mind the SS Offset is only one component of the Chevron Pension multi-part formula. Although not easy for the layman to figure out precisely, the fact of establishing if your SSA Age 65 benefit using actual earnings is LOWER than Chevron's estimated Age 65 PIA is all one needs to know. Submitting your SS Statement to Chevron before retiring (or within 6 months of having retired) will yield you a larger pension payout.

@4joa, I don't think you can do everything I mentioned with the Quick Online Calculator. The webpage for that calculator states it does not use historical earnings. I believe it also makes assumptions you cannot edit. It appears to me the more robust "AnyPIA" calculator is needed.

Congratulations on getting an extra 16%

What was the difference between the chevron age 65 offset and your social security age 65 payout ?

You can do everything you mention with the quick online calculator as well. Are the numbers that provides not accurate ?

@3ijj - I checked the SSA link you provided for the Quick Online Calculator. That one won't do the trick. You need to download the Detailed Calculator, known as "AnyPIA". Here's the webpage link:

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/anypia/anypia.html

It is a bit cumbersome to use. Follow the instructions carefully, or call your local SSA office and ask them to calculate your "Age 65 benefit" (not any other year). Tell them to use your actual SS earnings going back to your age 22 (provide them the year). Tell them to end your wage history with last year's earnings (2015). Lastly, make sure they DO NOT enter any wages for the current year (2016) or future years. The assumption they need to make is to calculate your benefit as if you retired at the end of 2015 and will not work again, and that you will start collecting Social Security on your birth month and year when you turn 65. If the benefit SSA gives you is LOWER than the Age 65 PIA that Chevron shows you in the Retirement Estimator (Benefits Connection website), then providing Chevron your SS Statement will lower your offset, thus increasing your Chevron Pension benefit.

@4ysa, In my case, I submitted my SS Earnings statement with my first request to start my pension. Chevron did not send back any correspondence. They just sent my first annuity check by mail then direct deposits beginning the second and subsequent months. In the event you commenced your pension already (less than 6 months ago), and later submitted your SS Statemnt, I'm not sure if or what correspondence you will get. Logic would dictate to me, that since a change in benefits had occurred, you would receive something explaining the changes made from Chevron. If not, you can always call the Chevron HRSC to request an explanation for your records. What I did before sending in my SS Statement and Prndion Commencement papers together, I printed the Retirement Estimator calculation generated in the Benefits Connection website. When I received my first annuity check, I compared the check amount with the Retirement Estimator result. The amount paid was more than the amount calculated by the Retirement Estimator by 16%. I'm a happy camper.

Did they send back any communication or did you just get your revised Pension amount ?

@4wvg, I sent my SS Earnings Statement in at the same time with my Pension commencement papers. I attached a cover letter too stating that I wanted them to use my actual SS earnings statement. I sent it to them by FedEx or US Priority Mail (I don't recall just now). But important documents like this is worth the few Dollars to prove they received it.

@4tpc, I agree the language is awkward and confusing. Leave it up to the lawyers to write these things. However, you do not have to wait the 6 months to submit your SS Earnings statement. If you actually wait one day after that time period, you will no longer be able to do so. Call the Chevron HRBC and speak to your Retirement Case Administrator. He will tell you that you can submit it now if you wish. It will take up to 30 days to recalculate your new benefit and if you stand to benefit, you will receive the increase and get reimbursed for the past months since commencing your pension.

is it better to send the Social security Statement along with your Pension Paperwork or send it separately first ?

my last day in Chevron payroll was in January. The documentation I got seems to indicate that If I plan to send a social security statement , I have to wait at least 6 month before I can submit it, even if I choose to submit my pension claim earlier. They will pay the pension amount and then send the additional amount or a bill depending on the results. Am I not understanding that correctly ?

Please read the Chevron Retirement Plan again carefully. You don't have to wait 6 months after your last day before you can submit your social security statement. It says (in other words) that you CAN submit your SS Statement NO LATHER THAN 6 months after you retire. That doesn't mean you must, but can. Chevron is quite generous in allowing this. In the event you start your pension (annuity or lump sum), the company will still accept your SS Statement up to 6 months later. They will adjust your pension amount and pay you the additional amount going forward and also back pay the difference owed to you. So, for the employees who already took their pension less than 6 months ago, they still have the opportunity to submit their SS Statement to Chevron HRSC if they figure it will benefit them. If you know such a retiree, please let them know to consider this move.

Why do they make you wait 6 months after your last day before you can submit your social security statement ?

My understanding is the Social Security Offset is a percentage of the Age 65 PIA. The formulas used generate a maximum percentage of 45%. So in the 9.6% example the maximum pension increase is 4.3% = (9.6% x 45%).

Thanks. I am planning to submit my SSN numbers as well. It appears I have to wait at least 6 months after termination before I can submit . Also, I assume I can send the Social Security statement first and then once the right numbers are in the system, then submit the pension paperwork.

The previous example produces a difference of 9.6%, but your pension increase will not necessarily be increased by that amount exactly. Please keep this in mind. The Chevron Retirement Plan formula is more complex than only figuring the difference between the two Offset amounts (SSA vs Chevron estimate). However, the excercise of figuring which method produces the lower result is vital to making the correct choice. Bottom line - If your Age 65 Social Security benefit using your actual earnings is lower than the figure Chevron calculates for your Age 65 PIA, then submitting your actual SS Earnings to Chevron ahead of your pension start date will always result in a higher pension payout.

@3tqu, you've seemed to transpose the numbers. In the cited example it's $2060 / $2280. Divide the smaller number by the larger. You will get a fraction (or decimal result). In this case, the result is 0.903508771. Round it down to 0.9035. To get the percentage difference, subtract 1. Although it produces a negative result, the absolute percentage is 9.649% after moving g the decimal two places to the right.

Can you explain your calculation , I don't understand how you came up with 9.6% , 2080/2260 is 0.903.

For anybody who submitted their ssn numbers and got their lump sum changed, can you confirm how it works. In the example given, it appears about $ 180 over on the Chevron calculation ($ 2260 VS 2080), will that really translate to a about a 10 % increase in the lumps sum. That is a big deal, 700K lump sum as an example becomes $ 770K, that could be a big help for a lot of us if that is how it really works.

@3jci, it comes out to 9.6% more in your favor. Calculation: 2060 / 2280 - 1 = 9.6%.

ANYPIA.exe is the calculator they I used. By default, it calculates your age 62, FRA and 70 benefits (can't customize to get an age 65 result). But the SSA website has a table you can find that gives you the factor to use (based on your birth month and year) to convert the FRA (Full Retirrment Age) benefit to an age 65 result. It's a bit cumbersome to use and the instruction manual is not easy to figure out. But I called my local SSA office and got a helpful person on the line who calculated everything for me inside of 10 minutes. They have all your earnings history. Just give them your 2015 SS Earnings amount (unless they have it already) and tell them your 2016 and future earnings will be Zero, and they should also ignore any earnings you may have had prior to your age 22.

Don't use the quick one. Use the one that you download. "ANY PIA". It's a little tricky at first but you can figure it out. It's instant. Better than quick. Use the "forms" tab and edit that info. You can get your SS amount no matter when you start or quit or how much you make.

Mine comes out to $ 2,060 per month on the SSA quick calculator, the Chevron Age 65 PIA is $ 2,280. Any idea how much this would increase my lump sum ?

Excellent post, @3ijj. Thanks. I was under the impression that the SSA Quick Calculator would only give results for ages 62, Your Full Retiement Age, and 70. Additionally, I thought it would assume my last year SS Earning would continue the same into the future. I'm glad to hear they offer such a calculator as you say. And the result everyone should take is the "LOWER" number. If the SSA age 65 benefit is lower than the Age 65 PIA (aka SS Offset) Chevron is showing in the retirement estimator, then submit your SS Earnings Statement to Chevron HRSC 30 days before your pension start date. Thanks again for your informative post.

The Social Security (SS) Quick Calculator ( https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/quickcalc/index.html ) will provide the SS Offset for actual wage history. Run the calculations with an age 65 retirement date, provide the wage history through the “See the earnings we used” button, and zero wages for the current year (2016) forward. Compare that monthly benefit to the Age 65 PIA (SS Offset estimate) provided by the Benefits Connection webpage. You want the lower of the two. In my case providing the actual wage history increases the monthly annuity 3%, despite non-Chevron summer wages back to age 17. To validate the procedure, I entered the wages Chevron uses for estimation and obtained the identical SS Quick Calculator number as the Benefits Connections Age 65 PIA value.

The Social Security Offset may be the least understood and least explained component of the Chevron Retirement Plan, but it's the ONLY part of the retirement formula that the employee has control off. Changing Chevron's Age 65 Social Security benefit estimation method for your actual SS Earnings is the only part of the 4-part formula that has the potential to increase your annuity or lump sum pension payout significantly. It's not out of the possibilities that some short-term employees (5-7 years) to gain up to 25% more.

@3hjd, it's very likely that with 30 years at Chevron and the few years before entering the company your previous pay was at a similar level to your starting pay, you will not gain much more by providing Chevron your SS Ststement. I would still try to run the Excel spreadsheet analysis previously explained in this thread. Also continue to press Chevron HR to give more explicit presentations on the subject of the SS Offset, since it's the least understood component of the Chevron Retirement Plan.

@3hjd, as you explained it - you have 30 years with Chevron and prior to becoming an employee, your pay was close to your CVX starting pay, you will not gain much at all by providing Chevron your SS statement. The gain may not be worth it.

30 years in the oil patch...you better come out good.

I didn't start work with Chevron until I was 31 and now I will be exiting at 61. The SSO confuses me but according to my calculations, they could be and probably are wrong, I will gain money on my lump sum by submitting my earnings statement from SS. My first couple of years I was in college where I earned very little but my last two years working prior to Chevron was comparable to what I made starting out working for Chevron. It's confusing, just hope I come out to the good.

@GEjhx1M-2iwa - How would you know that?

Very good point @-1umh. If during any of the years in question after age 22, you are above the max. Then your SS would default to that max regardless, so Chevrons calculation would max out too. It is not much different than the results of that PIA calculator that you get from the SS website. Because of that, the example of a salary in excess of the max. (like $200k) is a poor one to use as an example. No offense intended to person with that example. The concept that I believe that is being stressed here is the potential loss of benefit percentage if the wages from those years in question while not employed at Chevron are well below the SS max, and Chevron OVER-estimates them using their formula. In that case you need to make sure they use the real numbers. For the pension calculation, the lower your wages from years worked outside of Chevron, the higher your pension.(And the lower your SS). You do not want to take a SS cut(so to speak) from those low-earning years AND a pension cut. The calculation protects your from that as long as you provide them with the proper info and do not let them estimate it. Please correct me if I have this wrong or forgive me if this post appears twice. It's having trouble going through.

It's apparent someone tried posting something here 20 minutes ago, but it did not take. Please try ousting it again. Chevron of the moderator must not like what was posted. (Touchy subject for them). Try again, please.

Very good point @-1umh. If during any of the years in question after age 22, you are above the max. Then your SS would default to that max regardless, so Chevrons calculation would max out too. It is not much different than the results of that PIA calculator that you get from the SS website. Because of that, the example of a salary in excess of the max. (like $200k) is a poor one to use as an example. No offense intended to person with that example. The concept that I believe that is being stressed here is the potential loss of benefit percentage if the wages from those years in question while not employed at Chevron are well below the SS max, and Chevron OVER-estimates them using their formula. In that case you need to make sure they use the real numbers. For the pension calculation, the lower your wages from years worked outside of Chevron, the higher your pension.(And the lower your SS). You do not want to take a SS cut(so to speak) from those low-earning years AND a pension cut. The calculation protects your from that as long as you provide them with the proper info and do not let them estimate it. Please correct me if I have this wrong.

@1xol, HR will not go through scenarios with each individual. They have clearly stated they won't. What I meant to say is HR should provide a more detailed coverage of the SSO topic in their retirement presentations.

Very interesting question, I think the IRS limit for Social Security wages is $118,500 for 2015, that should be the maximum number that chevron can use, what am, I missing here ?