LL6 is a sh---y role in every way, including compensation. Don't be an LL6 unless your goal is to become LL5 or higher.
LL5 is where all the money , annual stock awards, gigantic bouses, and other secret benefits kick in, vs LL6. LL6 is just a GSR8.5 (glorified engineer )
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@3er yeah, true, but not fully, some things were out of my control. Also, just to clarify, that was sarcasm, in the opposite direction:
Self-taught / dropout / dogfood route, not the "academia to reputable company ladder". By "paying attention in school", I meant focusing on getting the heck out of there ASAP. I’m not saying school is useless, I’m saying it wasn’t the right environment for me.
Looking back, one of the hardest parts was that I was a kid, which meant I had very little agency or credibility when something felt wrong. Some of the adults and institutions around me discouraged my development rather than supporting it. Whether intentional or not, they often pushed me away from my strengths instead of helping me build them. At the time, I didn’t really have a voice, and challenging those influences wasn’t a realistic option.
The people in “education” who were supposed to guide me were sometimes poor influences themselves, and as a child, I had very little chance of having my concerns taken seriously. I felt like the system was molding optics to fit their needs rather than supporting growth.
@3ag yeah, that’s on you bud
Lots of angry birds here. I should've paid more attention in school so I could've joined a more reputable company.
just be cool as an AC unit
LL's - hand waivers and bloviators. If they could truly contribute at one time, they lost that ability after getting the LL role.
@17q Not me honey! Hope you're having a great weekend.
I believe that most of these comments about women are written by single men edgelords. So edgy, guys!
The moderators had to clean up a lot of those garbage posts already
Try being a good person, for a change, and you'll have a better chance of meeting a woman in real life.
@14v hun, you know I read these
It’s just a plain toxic environment where people of both s-xes who behave badly are rewarded. Ford is a company where people are fighting for crumbs in a system not based on merit. These people literally have nothing to contribute so they tear others down and stir up drama, cause problems and then act all innocent and propose solutions to the problems they caused. When the crazy town circus gets out of control, another reorg occurs.
To top it off even women can't stand working around other women.
@zn I've heard that too, it's pretty scary and I hate all this polarization. Coming from a Germanic culture, my perspective is a bit different, though maybe just as progressive as yours by American standards. The culture here is definitely different, but I'm not sure upper middle class America sees it as much as you might think.
@yn I didn't think they were offensive, it put me on an interesting read about "female aggression" or whatever they called it, I always just called it "catty" but it was interesting to see the academic facts behind it.
Nice. This thread was scrubbed to remove the offensive posts about women in the workforce. Good job, moderators.
Yeah, it sounded like more of a burden then anything, extra hassle and hardly a benefit.
@r5 the number of female LL6s whose spouse is a LL5 or higher is quite high. It is decidedly unpleasant to report to one of those LL6s. We had 3 of them in our department. We called them Snap, Crackle and Pop as all day long they ran to the LL5 and LL4 stirring the pot, then they ran around the whole department and adjacent departments stirring the pot. All day long hen fest slandering and impugning the character of the people who were actually doing work. So exhausting.
So true. Even the management lease program, the only real incentive for doing this, is a joke now!
LL5's have their choice from the intern crop. They just select one they like for a special project and things move on from there. Many Ford couples start out this way.
Any job at Ford is sh---y. Just pretend you are working and get the paycheck. That is all you should care about.
Non-exempt GS6 is really where you want to be. All OT must be paid so they can't work you to death, and the pay is decent. Keeps you completely out of politics.
@e9+1krw8vj36 Correct on the tech leader. When the FnF crowd needs a head to chop they will covertly administratively reclassify the tech leader/tech spec as a supervisory role and then clip them in a layoff as they have no direct reports.
Another game they play is telling tech spec LL6 they must be a supervisory LL6 and then they dump all the SG that they plan to layoff under that LL6 and clip the entire group.
Stay SG8 if you are technical.
There was an old saying, still relevant now. "It's great to be an 8". Salary bands are such that an 8 can make the same money as an LL6 without the headaches! Management vehicle lease is simply not worth the hassles. Ask me how I know 😉
My LL5 or maybe it was the LL4 who knows, had a history of putting people on a PIP if they complained (in the last few years), HR finally recognized the pattern and moved the dirtbags around after my LL6 was about to end up on a PIP, they absolutely have the worst position in the company, the LL6 pleaded to HR and actually got some movement. We-ponizing the PIP process is by far the ugliest thing this company has done. Sad the careers this guy has likely ruined over the years.
LL6 salaries max around 206k and that was over a year ago. Plud vehicle. The problem with LL6 is you'll get transfered a lot and I notice they get laid off just ad quickly. Dont ever accept a tech leader role either. They are also an LL6 and you can get su-ked into a regular LL6 role as a supervisor.
You know it’s bad when HR admits in writing that a situation was mishandled and one sided…. This is a level of incompetence that should not be tolerated.
Just at how many married couples are LL5's or going to become an LL5.
Ford is the biggest social club.
I think we found a fantastic LL4 or even LL3 promotional candidate. Wow, this guy has a big future at ford.
LL5 isn't worth it either. LL4 is where the compensation really jumps. The retirement benefits alone make it worth it. So stay at GSR unless you want to sell your soul to the company and get to LL4.
And none of the LL5s in the room had the ba--s to say anything, that was fu--ing ridiculous.
@ce I believe the most detrimental aspect is the psychological warfare employed by the company. It’s not only unethical but also harmful to individuals and, consequently, the company itself. Instead of we-ponizing processes and authority, people should revert to the fundamental principles of Human Resources, where individuals are heard and respected. My LL4 was notorious for this behavior; he was a sadistic individual who would question whether someone was genuinely affected, asking, “Is that a doctor’s appointment?” If you harass someone persistently, it takes a toll on their well-being. It’s immature, and I sincerely hope that someday he or his children will have to face a similar situation.
@cb We-ponized incompetence. A common control tactic of narcissists. That LL5 is needing to have someone around him to cater to his needs and to dump on. I guaranteed if the LL4 wasn’t also cut from the same cloth he would magically be able to plug his laptop in and conduct a meeting. Every meeting room has a poster with step by step instructions.
@cc same for all the ranks…. They’ve gotten more sadistic and bitter over the years.
When a boot li---r gets promoted to LL5 they expect everyone to lick their boots. When was the last time a non-boot-li---r was promoted to LL5 at Ford? 1990s?
Ford needs to eliminate all the LL5s. Useless role full of sadistic people who are clawing their way upwards. One LL5 only got promoted because an existing LL5 drown on vacation and they needed to fill the slot with a “non-threat”. The guy is a total tool. He brags continually about how much money he is making. He takes the department floater laptops home for his kids, then he gets angry when people can’t set up meetings and run meetings for him as there is no floater laptop. One day he took a SG laptop and demanded to know the password, then gave it to an LL6 to run meetings from. All this from a guy who fancy’s himself as a SharePoint and Social media guru, yet can’t manage to carry his laptop to a meeting room and connect it to the meeting room monitors and pull up a presentation.
The tool will purposely set up 1-1 meetings at times when he knew the LL6 / SG has family commitments / prior commitments. When people request to reschedule the meeting he declines and asks them how important their job is to them. The tool scheduled a 1-1 one hour before an LL6’s father’s funeral and when the guy didn’t show he put him on a PIP and gave him loads of menial tasks.
He is not an isolated case. In fact they should fire all the LL3s as well.
@c5 by RSU I think you mean real sh---y instability, yes that is all Ford.
Do you get RSU's typically if you are a GSR8 or is this only reserved for LL5&6's?
No way, LL6s are the best, you are basically a meeting attender and 1:1 facilitator. No decision making, no workload, just Bob your head up and down when the LL5 is talking. Easy
I dont know about that. Over here we have LL6s that are woefully incompetent technically and thus have no business being an engineering supervisor. Heck, they couldn't even engineer something let alone do the job of one of their engineers they supervise. They were put in place to be yes men and yes women to their king LL5 or LL4.
And you wonder why this company is in trouble? Well, this is one example of many reasons.
The days of LL5 big bonuses are long gone. The LL6 and LL5 pay scale overlaps significantly, and it's NOT uncommon for GSR8s to be hired at a higher pay rate than 6s and even 5s. The truth is GSR 8 is last and only place you want to be. LLs in general (especially 6s) are piled-on daily by the results of years of poor promotional choices and leadership strategy decisions.
The days of LL5 big bonuses are long gone. The LL6 and LL5 pay scale overlaps significantly, and it's uncommon for GSR8s to be hired at a higher pay rate than 6s and even 5s. The truth is GSR 8 is last and only place you want to be. LLs in general (especially 6s) are piled-on daily by the results of years of poor promotional choices and leadership strategy decisions.