This is an open secret. It's not a new thing Citi is doing, it has done same in past with Kathleen Martin Whistleblower and many others and now it's doing in mass. Should do a class action lawsuit it's wrong.
36 replies (most recent on top)
@20q yes ... they investigating and asked dor documents to support my rationale etc. Hoping we all get good news or our record heardZ
Anyone got back from ethics or hr?
@v3 No sorry, I don't. It may have been cash is my guess
If you don;t click submit your manager will close it for you or will not even ask you about it again. It really depends on how diligent the "manager" is.
@vs yup and open an HR ticket and state your case that way they cant justify a layoff if anything itll make you more protected. Also apply the fu-k out of that toxic place. The firm was so much better years ago. Powe egos and sh---y managers have infected citi
@vs also what would happen if I don't submit I am just curious here.. isn't it just closing the case telling I am not happy with the outcome.. want to understand the consequences of not submitting..I have the proof if anyone coming up and asking can always provide the proof...but it's still 1 way if I have to submit it.. isn't it
@vr completely agree,my question is now when they are looking for the way to sc--w me (already did by scrapping my whole year effort) want to understand how else they can do it ..
@vq I really do want to help you. So here it is:
@aq
Do Not submit/click acknowledge in Workday until you write your comments/rebuttal. Writing and thinking through what your comments/rebuttal are, why you disagree with the low rating, proof or examples of why you shouldn't be low rated, etc. may take a few days to write. But it's important that you do NOT simply click submit/acknowledge, else Silence is acceptance, agreement and participation.
Can your ratings be changed at this point or after your rebuttal comments ? NO. But at least there will be a record of why the Ratings are wrong or unfair. This has probation value for the future.
If you foolishly/Stvpidly already clicked Submit/Acknowledge, your other option is to STILL write the comments/rebuttal. Again, it may take a few days to write, but it will be valuable and cathartic.
Email the finalized rebuttal version to your HR Business Partner, located at the bottom of your name in the Global Directory. If you have No designated HR Business Partner, Open a Case/Ticket in Workday and send it that way. Again, at least there will be a record of why the Ratings are wrong or unfair. This has probation value for the future. I would even send it to cc, Sara Wechter and go that high up !
Be aware that HR in any company works for the company/employer and NEVER for the employees. HR, Legal Dept., Compliance Dept., etc. do NOT work for the CEO, much less the lowly employees. Regardless, write and send the rebuttal email as detailed above.
by Anonymous Post ID: @ba+1kdsz0jq1
kt is BullSh!t. Why would anyone in their right mind give knowledge transfer and trade secrets to their coworkers who could replace them ? Doing this only makes you fungible and more easily replaceable.
There are methods of faking kt. For example, if someone wants to know how to play a game, poker, football, whatever, they can read a book(s) about it. You'll only get and learn the bare bones basics and rules of the game.
But what you will Not get from textbook learning are the trade secrets, hacks, shortcuts, nuances, strategies, tactics, troubleshooting, etc. that only come from experience playing the game or in this case having done the work itself.
@ve do you work in Citi and you don't know what it is? It's knowledge transfer...I know asking knowledge transfer from a need improvement resource shows how much improvement do they need but that's how it is ..as most of the cases this 4 rating is having different root cause other than performance.. anyway anyone else being on the same boat can advise please?
First of all, what's kt ? Please refrain from using vague acronyms.
Getting fired due to low rating or Rating 4 is NOT getting fired for cause. Did you Google "what is getting fired for cause?" to being with ?
Getting fired for cause usually involves criminal activity including but not limited to: AS$ault, s3xual hara$sment, R@pe, stealing from the company and/or clients, damaging company property, etc..
Getting fired for low or bad work performance is Not getting fired for cause, at least in the banking industry to the best of my knowledge. And it shouldn't be because it's Not criminal activity related.
In some industries, like Insurance, they include getting fired for any reason (Except RIFs/Layoffs) as getting fired for cause. So if you work for an Insurance company, and get fired because of bad work performance or failing a PIP, you will be flagged as having gotten fired for cause, which is Ret@rded and absurd.
Lesson and moral of the story is, avoid working for Insurance companies unless you're that desperate and can't get hired anywhere else. They probably get the Dregs, most unwanted incompetent job applicants and employees because of their antiquated, stringent company policies.
Has anyone been fired with 4 can confirm here? Not only on the severance also does it affect future jobs if it is a termination with cause,be it performance or not giving kt
@km do you have any idea what the settlement was?
@pj is correct 100%. They can opt to or not to give you severance. They can opt to let you go for no reason at all.
THIS is the reason I advocate to NOT give a two week notice when you find another job. When you find another gig, just quit, no notice. Why show Citi a common courtesy when they do not do the same to you. Show Citi the same concern for them as they do for you which is zero.
This is something that Citi needs to realize.
@jn Wrong. There is no law (state or federal) stating that companies must offer severance and further there is no law that says if you are fired for poor performance you are entitled to anything. Severance is a voluntary benefit offered by the company. They can fire at will. Poor performance is subjective so it's an easy way to fire someone without any severance and drawing too much negative news. Severance is allotted for a reduction in force and loss of jobs. Severance is not available for getting fired. There's a big difference and I think some of you need to understand the distinction.
Right , that is why Citi is becoming a mock, if it won't protect the layer which is actually working and building the bank and just let the manager do their nonsense on choosing whom to fire (and they take it as opportunity to save their own own job) where most of the cases the manager need to be fired being the lowest performer ... where else it will end up?? I don't know is it that difficult logic to understand..if they stricten these process even managers will be forced to work.
@kk The thing with Ethics is that they will take action only when they think that the evidence (written or witnesses) will pass the sniff test in a jury or bench trial should you sue. The moment they think that's the case, then Ethics will act at least in cases where it's not a C level or business head involved. Most people don't have that kind of evidence. Many times what they have is he said, she said. And many times witnesses, fearing their own job, might not speak up even though Ethics will assure them of anonymity. People don't trust so easily. No, I am not HR or Ethics but have witnessed a case of settlement because the person concerned had solid evidence and a witness and the person doing the retaliation was a repeat offender.
As de-------t said - follow the money. In this case, it's follow the evidence. If it stands up in court, Citi will do their best to settle with you and at the end of the day no one wants to go to court - neither you or your lawyer, nor Citi.
@fj the ethics dept is a joke even in blatant discrimination cases etc
@kc yeah its BS. Thats crazy.
I don't believe so (that you get severance even if you get 4 ,pip you get severance). As mentioned in the main post check the Kathleen case (Anand Selva one). You will get many in internet, similar case in Hong Kong,Tokyo. They would not go to court if they would have been given severance. I got the same (first time in my Citi career of 16 year ) and following related topics here and this is what I understood - management is asked to do (-1 rating) to save severance. The project I am in is not critical and have an insecure manager this year.. very prominently I am not the worst one but showing my number of years he is just trying to settle some other dues. And now because I denied KT I know what nonsense coming next.So I think this definitely affect severance.
@jn even if they placed people on a pip etc the still pay severance ? Keep hearing of folks getting put on cr-ppy ratings to force them to quit
You still get severance even if you were eliminated based on performance. It is a legal requirement based on tenure and varies country to country in accordance with the law.
If you quit because you don't like your rating, then that is your choice.
so the below advise of reporting to Ethics is actually from admin /citi ethics team ROFL
I imagine Citi Ethics and Citi legal all get together at the end of the year at a party and run a slide deck. The slide deck shows all the incidents that they manipulated or bullied someone to “not” seek external legal avenues and then they just all laugh and laugh. I can oh so seeing this playing out in my head.
@fg I think one of the biggest jokes are Citi hr and Citi ethics...I meant seriously!! Citi ethics..I think someone already asked in other topic and (of course) still unanswered has anyone at least in this forum have ever got justice through Citi ethics.. those are just there to be compliant. In these cases Citi has 0 tolerance. Otherwise those managers or Citi wouldn't dare to do these nonsense
Report it to Citi's ethics hotline - they take these things seriously.
Citi going tough time to give huge bonus to J and conveniently using performance cause to fire those "high severance eligible" employees and some a$$hole managers are just using this opportunity to take out their own vengeance
That's why the OP needs to go to an Employee-side Employment Lawyer to discuss what his/her options are for suing Citi.
The lawyer will most likely take the case on contingency fee basis which means No out of pocket expenses for the employee. There are thousands if not millions of lawyers who will take this case against a deep-pocketed company like Citi.
The phrase is, "en masse", not "in mass".
It's a French phrase, meaning: "all together and at the same time, as a while/in large numbers."
You're not referring to a Catholic church service or the state of Massachusetts.
@dk correct any company can fire at will - the crime here is tying to a false cause of performance. Say a person is there for 25 years - on 26th year finding that person incompetent and firing without severance is crime,why I will tell ,to identify a resource incompetent it took 25 years who actually is incompetent or the company? If you are going to tell the nonsense "other years he performed well so he wasn't fired and only that year he didn't perform well so fired"..fine , good enough..then severance should be cut for the year he didn't perform well and given for rest of the year..hope this clarifies
@ds if you are not interested on the topic and only interested on justifying Citi's deed to save severance by firing people on performance, please look for other topic or start a new (if you don't want anyone else to do that job for u) , they are incompetent or not that let the lawsuit prove. Let's not move away from the topic here
Did you at least Google your question ???
Or do you want other people to do the work for you and start a Class Action Lawsuit ???
And then both Citi employees and non-employees wonder why Citi is laying off Lazy, Incompetent employees.
Go figure ?
Any company can fire you at will. Just like you can quit at will. What crime is being committed?
It’s ok for Citi to do this. How else will the be able to afford Jane’s yet once again massive additional bump in pay
Its happening a lot , how di we sign up for class action
Should also pull the manager, they're just using it as a chance to take revenge or removing their competition without giving it to the actual low performer