Thread regarding SAP layoffs

Why is there so much hatred and racism on this forum? Is it genuine or are trolls trying to derail the discussions here?

I used to find a lot of interesting and important information here, as well as mutual encouragement.

Now this is drowned in name-calling and bigotry.

Can we try to return to the old ways?

@r3+1kb23k5na Ignoring selectively also makes you a racist and a two faced person.
JF is a racist and bigoted person and he got a return in kind which was true. Get over your entitlement and self righteous mindset. World doesn’t run in your validation. Times have changed and before judging others, learn from your own history.

@sf re: fighting for resources, soon the senile diaper-$h1++ing madman Trump will invade Venezuela for their oil/petrochemicals bo--y. Who needs Russia’s and China’s energy and wealth? Just be opportunistic wherever this senile madman invades. The lemmings around him will pave your way.

@se You are right, people are seeing wealth inequality as a huge problem if companies cannot pay a fair wage then offer fair working conditions like no office mandates or else right to charge office callout fees by employees and resign with severance pay.

Better working protections means less racism. So best to stop blaming 1ndians and start blaming governments who cannot protect workers rights. We saw what happened when manufacturing was outsourced and nowadays nobody wants to work in manufacturing because it's considered "dirty" or low pay even with reshoring. So once software jobs get shipped to Mumbai, reshoring back means lower pay. Just like with manufacturing.

Unless white collar workers outside Germany unionise we will continue to get sc--wed over by employers. Employers won't pay you more and won't allow you to work a second job etc. They embed all these clauses in your work contract to effectively limit your ability to make more money to keep up with living costs.

@kd You have to view the world economy as a finite ecosystem. These superpowers are fighting over resources and wealth. Russia has a lot of fossil fuels and China is becoming aggressive in terms of acquiring capital. That's why there are vested interests. Otherwise if these countries replaced their currencies with the USD and banned trade barriers or relinquished authorities to their own resources you wouldn't be seeing visceral headlines. The US could just walk anywhere and everywhere and acquire resources as it sees fit and stocks will go up indefinitely.

Because we printed so much fiat currencies in response to the Covid virus, our middle to upper middle class populations have been crushed due to hyperinflation and poor productivity.

This decoupling from China and Russia is simply a decoy from our real problems such as currency debasement, societal decay due to populations subscribing to corporatised hedonism and individualism, and forever mass layoffs.

Guys, one thing we all forget is , we are professionals and SAP is a for profit company. As a professional you can ask what you see your salary should be, SAP has a company will try to give you less so it can maximize its profit. Is every professional the same ? no rt then why should salary be the same even for the same T level. This T level is all BS. it is actually used only to cut employees by HR. So stop whining, upgrade ur skills and demand what you want. If SAP Cannot pay it , find some company that can pay. else keep quiet and take what is given to you. Gender/DEI nothing makes sense in tech. work in startup in SV that will help with ur perspective. We can ask US goverment to protect American workers like Germany protect their employees.

@r3 So, according to you @mc is hateful while @jf+1kb23k5na is the saint here. It's a deeper problem with this firm. It's utterly racist. In the significant time I have spent in this organisation I come across people like you and @jf+1kb23k5na who selectively target Indians and migrants while ignore where the hatred spewing really started from.

@md spot on. i always wonder why people say they are such good people then lie about others being hateful. good people dont tell lies that make innocent people look bad.

@mc What is the reason for this hateful, racist posting? You should get yourself help.

The IQ levels in this thread are alarming.

I've always been able to see this? Am I the only one?

@jn+1kb23k5na
Whole of SAP Signavio design management is full of SAP old timers like their head of design, design managers and others.

@kd That's the point, Japan is not a great example because this is what a country gets when zero immigration happens. Nobody can afford to have kids and haven't been able to for many years. Immigration slows the inevitable.

So when AFD get in charge and remigrate people don't be surprised if mass layoffs worsen and cost of living doesn't improve. See Trump DEI scapegoat situation we're in now. Average millennial cannot afford a house under his admin and there are mass layoffs and deportations of South Americans.

@ka I see your point but is Japan a good example?

There is a very right wing anti immigration government in Japan. And they have very bad employee protections. Yet, because of this situation, they have almost zero layoffs.

Whether you want it or not, the US and Russia and China are the only true superpowers left and they dictate the world economy. If US companies start AI, SAP will focus on AI. If US companies do regular layoffs, SAP will do regular layoffs. The SAP executive board follows what Silicon Valley does even if it is bad for the company. Because that is the only way for the executive board to be seen successful and collect higher bonuses. The executive board is helping create the same environment as we now have in the US. What can SAP employees do about it? Nothing. Employees have no power compared to a board that has so much money and power.

@jn The leader of Signavio (not Gero) is, in fact, a long-time employee of SAP. The entire Engineering Management team consists of individuals who have built their careers at SAP, while the Product Management team is made up of former Celonis employees. With a few exceptions, the only managers at Signavio are those DEI coaches who previously referred to themselves as people leads and have now transitioned into development manager roles. Everyone else left or was forced to leave by the new SAP management. Naturally, these people leads are being replaced one by one. I don’t disagree with this viewpoint. I think that long-term SAP employees have a deeper understanding of the company compared to DEI managers from startups. I can hardly wait for all these people leads to leave. They are HR professionals who lack knowledge about cloud development. They were retained solely to ensure that Signavio maintained a high score for “women in leadership.” Because they were mostly women and immigrants. Once we have enough European women in expert roles reporting to upper management, these DEI HR professionals will disappear, and the Signavio woke agenda will come to an end.

@jj Germany and many other EU nations have relied on the US for far too long when dictating policies. Remember that it wasn't the EU that started bo----g the Middle East, and then there was a refugee crisis because of that, and mass intake of people who don't share German values and kept causing problems. Which gave the right wing parties ammunition to scapegoat and blame them for remigration.

Meanwhile native Europeans aren't having kids. And when you stop having kids you stop having consumers. Which leads to a recession. When your company's profit margins aren't growing faster than inflation this is what it means. I.e. your population of customers grows faster than inflation. If it doesn't then it's mass layoffs.

You can argue and compare this situation to Japan. But their economy was obliterated by the US in the 1970s and 80s. They never fully recovered since then and they've been on the decline thanks to zero immigration. But they don't care because their mindset is different.

In SAP's case we're not too concerned about end consumer population growth. All we care about is the growth in new companies who will buy our software.

External titles may differ from internal titles. T levels can be deduced from internal titles, but it's not as straightforward with external ones. Additionally, as many have pointed out, the salary ranges for each T level are quite broad, making it challenging to determine an individual's salary. However, research conducted by HR in Germany revealed that the salaries of three specific groups are lower than the average employee's: (i) Migrants, particularly those on a visa (ii) Women (iii) Employees who were brought in through acquisitions On the other hand, T4 and T5 managers who have been with SAP for a minimum of 10 years tend to earn above average. I think this is due to the fact that whenever there is an acquisition, these managers leverage their network connections to transition into that area. They also receive a larger share of MOVE SAP, GROW SAP, and other perks that are typically meant to retain acquired employees. Subsequently, they utilize their connections to secure promotions every year or two. Once the management in the acquisition area is predominantly composed of these SAP managers, they aggressively pursue another acquisition and relocate there. This cycle persists until the market conditions deteriorate, at which point they advocate for more layoffs. When layoffs occur, they often negotiate favorable early retirement packages. With numerous stock options, they are financially secure for life. In previous years, several proposals were submitted to HR to address this issue. One proposal aimed to limit GROW SAP, MOVE SAP, and benefits exclusively to acquired employees. However, HR rejected this proposal as the executive board was not in agreement. If you're genuinely interested in identifying which employees have experienced significant career growth at SAP, look no further than those who frequently transition in and out of our acquisition areas. Observe how often they receive promotions compared to catalysts and other high-performing employees.

@OP is every o9 employee that came onboard 8 months ago aPRESIDENT?
I wonder why…

@eg If he is that good, then why is SAP in the state she is in?

I consider him an improvement employee.

@ba Correct. But if I look at the spread in salaries eg. in T3 (Senior Dev) or T4 (Arch / Expert), this information is sufficiently vague to ensure privacy.

@b1 It's the same: since you'll see the job title, you'll be able to know (approximately) his/her salary

In 2026, salary transparency will take a decisive step forward in France. The European Directive 2023/970, adopted on May 10, 2023, aims to strengthen equal pay between men and women for work of equal value, through transparency mechanisms and sanctions. Member States, including France, must transpose these measures by June 7, 2026.
This reform complements existing measures such as the gender equality index, the Rixain law, and the Pacte law. Concretely, it will require greater visibility from the recruitment phase and throughout the employment relationship, with the goal of reducing inequalities, building trust, and enabling employees and candidates to negotiate on an informed basis.
What is salary transparency?
Salary transparency means making information about pay accessible and understandable within a company. This includes base salary, bonuses, variables, benefits in kind, and the criteria that determine them.
The goal is twofold: to allow employees to compare themselves with colleagues in equivalent roles, and to give candidates a clear idea of the offered salary before applying. Beyond access to information, this practice fosters fairness and helps prevent discrimination by relying on objective criteria such as experience, skills, or performance.
What’s new for 2026?
The European directive introduces several major changes:
Mandatory disclosure of salary ranges in all job postings.
Ban on requesting a candidate’s salary history.
Access to pay criteria and average pay levels broken down by gender for the same role or an equivalent-value role.
Regular reporting of gender pay gaps to the relevant authorities.
Mandatory joint evaluation with employee representatives if a gap of more than 5% is found without objective justification.
Simplified legal recourse for employees affected by pay discrimination, including the right to recover back pay.
Which companies are concerned?
All companies are subject to the principle of transparency, but obligations vary by size.
More than 250 employees: required to publish a full annual report on pay gaps, job by job. These figures must be shared with employees, staff representatives, and authorities.
Between 100 and 250 employees: subject to the same obligations, but with a more flexible schedule—one report every three years.
Fewer than 100 employees: no legal obligation, but some companies already adopt pay transparency voluntarily as an employer branding tool.
If obligations are not met, sanctions must be “effective, proportionate, and dissuasive,” with the burden of proof reversed in favor of the employee.
Benefits for employees
For employees, pay transparency is much more than just access to numbers: it is a concrete way to understand their position, identify unjustified gaps, and defend their interests. During annual reviews, it provides a factual basis for negotiating a raise or a promotion.
This clarity also improves the social climate. By making rules visible and understandable, it reduces the risk of discrimination and strengthens trust in the company’s HR policy.
How to implement salary transparency in a company
Conduct an internal pay audit to establish an accurate overview.
Prepare communication by presenting data clearly and in context.
Accompany pay grids with detailed explanations of the criteria used.
Update regularly and make information easily accessible.
The more this approach is embedded in company culture, the more it becomes a factor of trust.
Pros and cons of salary transparency
Advantages
Strengthens trust between employees and management.
Serves as a strong argument to attract candidates.
Helps reduce pay inequalities by making gaps visible and encouraging companies to correct them.
Disadvantages
Can fuel constant comparisons and create tensions.
May reduce flexibility in negotiations.
Could harm competitiveness if disclosed salaries are below market levels.
Without clear explanations, figures may be misinterpreted and create frustration.

@az Again this only allows employees to inquire about average salaries for a role, not individual salaries.

@az Thanks for the link 👍

Here are the disadvantages from the same site:

• Can fuel constant comparisons and create tensions.
• May reduce flexibility in negotiations.
• Could harm competitiveness if disclosed salaries are below market levels.
• Without clear explanations, figures may be misinterpreted and create frustration

@aj Here is the official text of the EU law mentioned above

https://staffmatch.com/blog/en/transparence-salaire-2026/#:~:text=The%20European%20Directive%202023/970,measures%20by%20June%207%2C%202026.

Divide and Rule

@am Well, maybe, but they were always visible in SFSF. It is not new. Why should there be an uptick in jealousy? I think most people will barely register it.

I definitely agree that this action will create a lot of jealousy and suspicion between coworkers. Not all job titles are visible yet, but they increasing in number when you check MS Teams daily and pretty soon all job titles will be available to everyone.

@ag This is unlikely.

In companies of a certain size employees can request the average salary of people in a similar position.

Data protection rules are very strict in the EU. At least in DE and FR people would never disclose their salaries, nor would they accept their employer doing so.

There is a law in EU that will be applied soon where any employee can request to know the salary of any other employee in the company so he/she can compare...

Maybe it's related ?

Anyways, the first, negative effect, that I see will be to create jealousy and suspicion between colleagues which will create an even worse atmosphere in the company

I can see the job titles only for some people, not for all.

In Umas or-a there are very few job titles visible. In Irfans or-a nearly all are visible.

It might be a staged rollout or influenced by the respective management, I don't know.

But as we could see the job titles in SFSF anyways, I don't think there is any harm done here.