Thread regarding Humana Inc. layoffs

Last nigh’s H-1B Post Deleted

H-1B Visa is the front that will most likely make an impact, from a Public Relations, a Legal, and Governmental impact.

All other issues such as with Artificial Intelligence, Ageism, etc. while although true are very difficult to prove.

But just like there are laws as to whom can apply for a Driver’s License (e.g., must be a certain age, must have sight, etc.), there are also laws as to whom can apply for an H-1B Visa and also when a company can hire someone under an H-1B Visa.

Two main criteria as I understand it.
1). A company can only fill a role with H-1B Visa, IF AND ONLY IF there are absolutely no American citizen’s available that can perform the duties of the open role.
2). If #1 above is true, then the person applying for the open role under an H-1B Visa MUST have verifiable educational qualifications in the field of that open role that completely supersede all American citizen’s applying for that same open role that proves they are not capable of performing the duties of that role.

I believe if a census was to be taken as to the volume of persons with H-1B Visa and look at the job duties for those roles AND verify the educational background of those on the H-1B Visa, there would be a clear violation of both rules, #1 & #2.

I even think that these clear violations of the law for H-1B Visa is a major opportunity for a class action lawsuit against not only Humana but all of the major Insurance companies and large Tech firms.

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| 2138 views | | 26 replies (last November 4) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1k8k6vj3n

26 replies (most recent on top)

@gg
White Australians have a H1B like visa they come on (E3) which is not counted as H1B

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Post ID: @1f0+1k8k6vj3n

@sy
Do you have any idea how many Canadians are passing themselves off as us citizens?

There are so many people from Eastern Europe who barely speak English here and have all kinds of crazy visa status.

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Post ID: @1ez+1k8k6vj3n

@sy I am so glad someone else finally called out @gg so that I did not have to. Thank you!

@gg
I happen to be the OP of this post and if everyone will please re-read it carefully, nothing is stated about any race or skin color.

The post simply states the rules of law for H-1B Visas, both the requirement to receive an H-1B Visa and also requirement to hire someone on an H-1B Visa.

So, @gg is taking a leap as to the author of this post’s race (skin color) and also taking a presumptuous leap as to what race or skin color the author may be speaking of when speaking of someone on H-1B.

For argument sake, a caucasion british man can be hired on an H-1B and as far as American citizen, that could be someone of many different races and skin colors.

I guess for @gg, the moral of the story is, to read carefully, don’t jump to presumptuous predetermined conclusions before replying to a rather innocently and innocuous post.

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Post ID: @t8+1k8k6vj3n

@gg White people? We're called US Citizens, and a lot of us aren't white.

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Post ID: @sy+1k8k6vj3n

This is really funny.
Love how white people are having a meltdown when brown people are hired but can’t accept that loads of whites are there because of nepotism and not merit.

Popcorn refill please.

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Post ID: @gg+1k8k6vj3n

@g9
the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is indeed one of the most influential lobbying groups in favor of expanding or maintaining the H-1B visa program, which allows U.S. employers to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.

The Onion put it mildly …lol
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has bravely announced it’s fighting for the “little guy” — specifically, the multinational tech giants and billion-dollar outsourcing firms struggling to make ends meet.

“Our mission,” said a Chamber spokesperson, “is to ensure America remains competitive by hiring anyone but Americans — because have you seen what local engineers cost?”

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Post ID: @gc+1k8k6vj3n

@ea
However — and this is the gray area —
large outsourcing firms often pay the legal minimum prevailing wage, which still lower than what U.S. employees (citizens or work permits holders) earn at the client company. That’s why firms like TCS, Infosys, and Wipro can undercut U.S. labor costs while staying technically within edge of law( barely legal) basically unethical.

H-1B visa holders are legally employed by the company that sponsors their visa, not the company where they physically work. So while the H-1B worker might appear to “work for” Humana (doing their projects, sitting in their offices), their actual employer on paper and legally is TCS — or another contracting firm like Infosys, Cognizant, Wipro, or Apollo.
The company that sponsors the H-1B visa makes millions from companies like Humana , and other US companies and pay the minimum possible wage for the sponsored workers themselves.
I am sure those companies have of political power by contributing millions into “friendly senators and congressmen/women” to increase the numbers of H-1B visas every year.
Political contributions ($$$$)what grease the political system run without squeaking.

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Post ID: @g9+1k8k6vj3n

@f9
60 days notice is really messed up if they have kids in school. Imagine a kid getting thrown out of school with only a few weeks remaining for school!!!

Overall I think we need to do a purge of the ranks and rehire the right people. We have a lot of dead weight around.

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Post ID: @fj+1k8k6vj3n

The H-1B system can feel like modern-day indentured labor when companies hire associates as contractors. They often don’t receive healthcare, 401(k) benefits, or fair pay. It’s a win for corporations, though—contractors are cheaper, come with less overhead, and can be let go anytime without severance. It’s not much different from bringing in Big Four consultants for short-term projects, except these workers’ livelihoods are tied to their visas.

At Humana, yes, there are full-time employees on H-1B visas. They go through the same interview process as everyone else and can be terminated like any other employee. I personally know teammates on H-1B who were given their notice and had 60 days to leave. As harsh as that sounds, at least they were given that time, which I think is a humane gesture.

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Post ID: @f9+1k8k6vj3n

@ea
Let’s be honest, many of the folks complaining are basically digital paper pushers and cannot compete in this new world order. So their solution is to eliminate potential competition.

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Post ID: @ec+1k8k6vj3n

Hope this clarifies certain things:

  1. Do H-1B visa holders get 401(k) or health insurance from the company they work for?
    Health insurance: Yes, in many cases. Because h-1b workers are employed in the U.S. under the same employer /employee relationship as U.S. workers, an employer offering a benefits package (health, life, disability insurance) to U.S. employees typically must extend those to H-1B employees as well. For example, the U.S. Department of Labor specifically lists “health, life, disability and other insurance plans” as benefits that must be offered on the same basis to H-1B workers if they are offered to others. Also, many H-1B workers report being eligible for employer-sponsored health plans.
    401(k) /retirement savings plans: Yes, similarly, if the employer offers a 401(k) or other retirement savings plan to U.S. employees, an H-1B employee generally can participate (assuming they meet the plan eligibility rules).

Caveats:
The employer is not required by immigration law to offer these benefits; what the law requires is that if the employer offers benefits to U.S. workers, the H-1B worker cannot be excluded on the basis of their visa status.

For retirement accounts: while the H-1B worker can participate, there may be additional tax or administrative considerations (especially if they later leave the U.S.)

Health insurance is strongly recommended (and is sometimes required via the employer) because but note: U.S. law does not automatically require a specific health insurance plan just because someone is on H1B

Summary: YES, H-1B workers can receive health insurance and 401(k) eligibility through their employer if offered, under the same terms as U.S. employees

  1. Can H-1B holders work overseas?
    This question has multiple dimensions. The short answer: working abroad (outside the U.S.) while holding an H-1B visa is possible under limited circumstances, but it carries complications and important limitations.

The H-1B visa is for employment in the United States for the petitioning employer. The employer must file their petition (Form I-129) specifying the work location in the U.S. and hours, etc.

If the H1B worker physically leaves the U.S. and works abroad, their H1B status in the U.S. is interrupted (they are no longer “in the U.S. in H-1B status” during their time abroad). Some legal commentary says that working remotely from another country is not covered by U.S. labor laws for H-1B workers and the visa status may not be “active” in the same way.

If an h1b worker is working abroad, the technical U.S. employment/immigration obligations (wage, location, worksite) may not apply in the same way because the worker is not physically in the U.S. working at the U.S. worksite. But as someone said, many of the workers here at Humana do not have an h1b, they are people working for contractors

Implications/in-practice:
If the worker intends to resume working in the U.S. under H-1B, then time spent abroad might disrupt the status or change the terms of the petition (depending on employer/immigration strategy).

If the employer’s business model supports an overseas worksite, the employer might need to file a separate petition or change conditions.
The arrangement may raise tax, labor law, and immigration issues (which jurisdiction applies, etc.).

Soooo: It is possible for an H1B holder to work overseas for their U.S. employer, but that work may fall outside the protections or constraints of the H-1B program when they’re not physically in the U.S. If the worker remains outside the U.S., they may not be “in H1B status” in the U.S. sense. You should check with an immigration attorney and employer before relying on this.

  1. Can H-1B workers be paid less than an American (U.S.) worker for the same job?

Not legally, at least per the formal requirements. The law requires that an H-1B worker be paid at least the higher of: the “prevailing wage” for the position in the geographic area, or the employer’s actual wage for similarly employed workers.

What that means:
“Prevailing wage” is defined (by the DOL) as what workers similarly employed in the occupation, geographic area, and experience, are paid.
“Actual wage” is what the employer pays other workers with the same job, experience, etc. in that location.

The H-1B employer must attest, in the Labor Condition Application (LCA) process, that the foreign worker will be paid at least that required wage and that working conditions will not adversely affect U.S. workers.

Practical complications / enforcement issues:
In practice, some studies report that H-1B workers are paid less than U.S. workers in comparable roles. For example, one study found that a major firm paid H-1B workers ~10% less (not 50 percent!!) than U.S. workers in similar roles.

Enforcement is imperfect. The DOL has the authority to investigate and recoup back wages when underpayment occurs.

The prescription (“prevailing wage or actual wage”) means that if the employer sets the “actual wage” for U.S. workers lower, the benchmark could be lower than the broader market rate.

So, by law you cannot be paid less than the required wage (higher of prevailing or actual) for your role under H-1B. So you should not be paid less than a U.S. worker in the same job at the same employer if that U.S. worker sets the “actual wage.” But the real-world situation can be more complex and enforcement may not always ensure perfect parity.

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Post ID: @ea+1k8k6vj3n

@c9 I am done arguing with you and will not anything further to this post thread.

If you think that the OP’s post was ridiculous then you simply are not aware of your surroundings.

Click on all of the links to other healthcare companies and you will see they all recognize the same issue as well. And notice all the people recently laid off that are looking for jobs on linkedin.

Do a google search on not just but also its competitors and maybe add H-1B as part of the search. This is not an isolated thing to Humana.

And lastly google the law requirements for H-1B Visa.

You are probably a leader just trying to minimize a REAL serious issue. And most likely laws being broken.

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Post ID: @cc+1k8k6vj3n

@c9 Not a ridiculous post and not just venting. Everything within the OP’s post is true. With a little research, I believe Humana would be called out and could easily be sued over the abusive way the H-1B Visa was ever intended to rarely be used.

Our current President even recognizes that or he would not have raised the H-1B Visa fee to $100k.

I am with our President in that I want to keep jobs in America for Americans.

Regardless, of your political affiliation, I cannot see why everyone would not want that.

Globalization was a failed experiment. Let’s step back before our unemployment rate reaches 50%, while our jobs get handed off to NON-American citizens. Already with AI there is going to be a cut into American jobs. Do we want to make things EVEN WORSE by also handing off our jobs to NON-Americans?!

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Post ID: @cb+1k8k6vj3n

@c9 Believe me, much more than venting going on. Public opinion is being made aware in many other places.

We, the American people, now are bright eyed and see what is going on in all our corporations, not just with Humana.

And America will take our country back! In a peaceful, lawful manner.

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Post ID: @ca+1k8k6vj3n

This is a ridiculous post. Some
People just want to vent.

H1B are paid and given benefits. There’s no way visas would be given for pay that isn’t comparable for the position unless we are saying our company lawyers are lying on the applications.

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Post ID: @c9+1k8k6vj3n

“ I have been working on, forcing myself, to pray for those Humana leaders that pushed me. Because God in the bible tells me that is what I am supposed to do. I believe even if it does nothing for them, it is good for me to do so.”

Which bible? You were lied to.

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Post ID: @c8+1k8k6vj3n

@c5 who cares about their stupid workarounds that “technically” keeps them within the law…MAYBE.

Point is, they (Humana) know what they are doing…handing over good jobs that should be American jobs, which Americans are more than qualified to do…all in the name of cheapness…all the while the C-execs are making millions and Associate Directors and Directors are making bonuses and higher pay to do the C-Execs bidding to get rid of American workers.

If corporations within any other country started outsourcing and contracting all that country’s jobs to Americans, they would be screaming as well, you had better believe it.

Take care of your home country’s citizens, FIRST!

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Post ID: @c7+1k8k6vj3n

@c1
Cry me a river. Do you really believe those online asu and wgu and crane canyon u can actually do anything?
People got in there because of bad grades and other people paying for them - like their rich parents and employers like Starbucks.
A huge percentage can barely write in English let alone write AI Transformers.

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Post ID: @c6+1k8k6vj3n

I’m willing to bet there’s a lot fewer H1-B employees than people think. There’s a ton of foreign contractors, but those are all outsourced from contracting companies who hold the visa agreement (ex: L-1 inter company transfer visa). They also have to post the job class that qualifies for H—1B visas and last time I looked it was only like 6 different job classes and most were IT related.

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Post ID: @c5+1k8k6vj3n

@c2 Thank you so much for your kind sympathetic words, which might very well be the first I have received since being thrown away.

I very much appreciate it! And, yes, it was not right. I deserved better as even my leaders knew how much I sought to help others even when it had nothing to do with my job duties and sometimes for persons in an entire department.

I am doing my very best to try and not be vengeful but it is very hard. I am not sure if I will ever forgive this company, my associate director, VP, nor Human Resources when I reached out to them in the end. I served my country in the military for 8 years. I did nothing wrong with Humana. If anyone deserved better, I believe I did.

I have been working on, forcing myself, to pray for those Humana leaders that pushed me. Because God in the bible tells me that is what I am supposed to do. I believe even if it does nothing for them, it is good for me to do so.

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Post ID: @c4+1k8k6vj3n

@bn I’m sorry. No one deserves to be thrown away like a piece of trash. So not ok!

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Post ID: @c2+1k8k6vj3n

It is true @bs
Statistics show that For bachelor’s degrees in “computer and information sciences” (which includes but is broader than just computer science), and engineering there are around 200,000+ awarded in the U.S. every year… are you telling me because there aren’t enough qualified Americans? American college graduates are not to believe your BS .There are plenty of qualified US citizens.

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Post ID: @c1+1k8k6vj3n

“ The truth is simple: it’s all about money — cheaper labor, no healthcare costs, no 401(k) contributions, and no hassle with labor or employment laws.”

All of these are untrue.

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Post ID: @bs+1k8k6vj3n

@av Does not make it right nor acceptable. And eventually will lead to American citizen workforce banding together to peacefully and lawfully speak out, shame these corporations, and perhaps even see if class action lawsuits can be put into place.

As for me, I have been forced out unfairly but I am at an age that I will just accept things the best I can and probably end up working dead end jobs and try to be content with that and hope that I do not get a life debilitating health issue.

But never should have been that way. I was a too performer that all workers on same level and below liked. It was my insecure leadership that was threatened by my ambition to do more. And it is a rigged system against the worker bees, unfortunately.

I will make a statement here that is not in line with my faith but in all honesty I hope that this company and all companies like it someday fail hard and that all leaders from associate director on up (including C-suite) if they did unethical and abusive employee treatment that ironically someday they feel the very same pain and excruciating anguish they have caused others.

But I will never do anything physically harmful to anyone, I want to make that abundantly clear. And I hope and pray nobody else does as well. As that is definitely no way to handle issues with a fellow human being.

Over a decade ago, I remember feeling so proud to work for Humana. But now, Humana has turned into a sleezy, disgusting, profit-making machine of which I am ashamed and embarrassed to have worked. And based on the many posts on this site and in discussing with others that are still there, I know I am not alone in that.

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Post ID: @bn+1k8k6vj3n

The real purpose of the H-1B visa program isn’t what politicians and corporations claim. They tell us these jobs go to H-1B contractors because there aren’t enough qualified Americans — but even the most cynical person knows that’s nonsense. No American graduated person burdened with student loans and family responsibilities would willingly take a 50% pay cut , with no healthcare and still be expected to live with dignity.

The truth is simple: it’s all about money — cheaper labor, no healthcare costs, no 401(k) contributions, and no hassle with labor or employment laws.

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Post ID: @av+1k8k6vj3n

You've only spoken facts. Good post.

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Post ID: @a5+1k8k6vj3n

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