Thread regarding SAP layoffs

I can confirm they’re fake. I got the job first, and the posting was only created afterward for me to apply so the process would look fair. Interesting, I actually got into SAP through the regular hiring process, without knowing anyone.

@rq They are not "fake" per se; what it means and is true is that positions are pre-assigned, and you have no chance to compete for them (a clear example is all the roles in Business AI, or most of the T4/T5 positions). Betrietsrat is there, "but it isn't", they could request an audit of the entire process, but they don't do so. Remember that they have personal aspirations as well and will not represent you accordingly if that sabotages important relationships for them. What HR will do is to trick the law, for example, by posting the role they are being "compliant", but the decision-making process and what comes after is harder to fight in court. This company works like this: get closer to groups of people "unfirable", for example, the Klein clan. Pivot to those roles that bring money to the company or who can actually build stuff (ups.. Product people, PM, POs, People, etc, and no adding AI to your title doesn't mean you build AI systems). I truly wish we were navigating these changes more empathetically.

I’m not alvays sure about the board, but in this case I suppose they would not allow fake postings.

But I might be wrong.

Wie should return the favor and do as much fake work as possible.

agree, as the rest, i.e. the "true" ones are all highly risky and to be iterated in months

100%.

I know of an entire team that was laid off and half of them were told by a manager that there would be new jobs posted under his team "for them". They were posted and anyone could apply and interview (and many did, including me). But in the end they just picked the 6 people they had in mind before the positions even went to recruitment.

Fake job postings? I cannot believe it.

The ethics department would not allow it.

The works council would not allow it.

The board would not allow it.

I saw a job posting requiring 10 years of experience and they went ahead and hired someone with less than 3 years. It’s about who you know here.

@OP there is no magic formula, it's just try and there's no guarantee of results.
Basically, you need to show the hiring manager that you're bringing value that other candidates don't have, otherwise she/he will chose one of the people he already know.

I've been in many situations where I was the best candidate because I'm well recognized in this area of expertise but hiring managers chose other candidates sometimes even beginners...I once complained about it to HR but they told me that managers have total freedom in the hiring process...

Contacting the hiring manager directly sometimes over a coffee might help if the manager already knows who you are...

In my experience, I played Decathlon strategy which is increase and focus on what you're very good at which will make you the best at it instead of working on your weaknesses which will only make you average...

Good luck !

@cp Ethics & Compliance agents get whacked as part of the retribution trail when they process legitimate allegations from employees like us. Their hands are tied against doing their job. A lot like the current U.S. Department of Justice.

Impacted employees for recent Layoffs have no hope. Most jobs either have preferred candidates, only consider applications from specific units or specific locations.

We didn't see new faces in depts like HR and Compliance for long time, it seems no optimization applies to them either ... Are they much better than colleagues in other departments?

Signavio is the worst of SAP, where internal polities play a big role. They give promotions and salary hikes to their close knit boot lickers and this goes from top to bottom.
This website is full of first hand horrible experiences from Signavio. This dept should be sold off and everyone should be fired from there.
These @$$#0|E$ there are a blot to SAP and humanity in general.

@bj A piece of advice. I would always have a chat in the coffee corner with the hiring manager first. It not only determines whether they have a preferred candidate, but also whether the chemistry is right, and whether your experience really fits to the job.

Job postings never contain everything about a position. Also, you might make yourself more interesting if you can mention additional qualifications such as being a member of the mentoring or coaching pool, if you support the architecture or expert curriculum, etc.

Only apply if this chat encourages you.

This phenomenon predates the works council.

In the early naughties I was asked to write a job posting to fit exactly to an external candidate we wanted to hire.

Nothing new under the sun.

As the first responder asked, I also wonder why the works council is letting itself be defanged by management to such a degree.

Why do they not do something about it?

@bf Allowing the People Leads which are basically glorified DEI coaches to become Development Managers was one of the worst things that Signavio ever did. And the Works Council allowed this even after there were complaints made to them. Obviously, the Works Council has to approve whatever Signavio management tell them to do. In any other tech company, DEI coaches won't see retention over actual engineers. But this is SAP Germany.

I can confirm the "predetermined candidate in mind". I've been trying to apply for a different job for the last three years and for the most of the positions the hiring manager already had a candidate in mind - confirmed by the hiring managers themselves. For the other bunch, I was told the position was for a specific location. To the point that when I see something that may look good, I email the manager first to save time and pain filling an application that will be rejected. It's another drop to the demoralization@SAP bucket.

@av It seems that the issue at hand has only been exacerbated by recent actions of the Betriebsrat. If there happens to be someone from the Betriebsrat observing this discussion, it would be prudent for them to investigate further for an area like say Signavio where the management always escapes scrutiny. Over the past three years, it would be insightful to analyze several key data points:
1) The number of colleagues who transitioned from SAP to Signavio, Walkme, or LeanIX with at least a 5% salary increase
2) The count of Signavio employees who received promotions to higher L or T levels with high salary hikes
3) How many of these individuals have taken on managerial roles despite lacking prior experience.
4) It would be worth examining how many employees been moved from one position to another within a year
5) Those who were unexpectedly promoted following the departure of their former manager (usually a former Signavio employee forced to leave the company)
6) The instances of individuals transitioning from "People Leads" to development managers without the necessary technical expertise.
7) How many of these role changes were publicly posted versus those approved discreetly by the Works Council could shed light on the overall transparency of the process.
8) How many working students at Signavio were promoted to full-time positions despite the presence of more qualified SAP colleagues?
9) How many "new" managers oversee teams located entirely in Berlin while being based in a different location?

A closer examination may reveal some striking trends, including several individuals who have secured salary increases of 25% to 50% due to a promotion or SAP stock over the past three years by playing this game. And guess what, these individuals will get glorified reviews in the new performance management system which will correspond to more salary and stock for them in upcoming salary reviews.

I can imagine why the OP is frustrated. And I do not believe the Betriebsrat can fix this as most of the perpetrators have been with SAP for a decade or more and know how to play the Betriebsrat like a fiddle.

Can‘t the works council do something about this?