Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

Terminated “for cause” after following HR direction — managers, be cautious

After four years of consistently exceeding expectations in my reviews, I was terminated “for cause” despite never having been on any kind of warning, performance plan, or investigation myself.

What triggered it was a situation where one of my direct reports had received a “needs improvement” rating. In full alignment with my manager and after consulting two levels of Employee Relations, I issued an informal performance warning. When no improvement occurred after eight weeks, I followed ER’s direction again and issued a formal warning.

Shortly after, that employee went back to ER claiming I was targeting her. Although I had documentation, approvals, and full ER guidance at each step, I was suddenly terminated “for cause.” My manager was blindsided and told me HR made the decision, not him.

Because the company is at-will, HR refused to document the reason in writing. I asked very specifically for the policy provision that I broke, and they said that it had to do with conduct, but they would not give me the exact provision . There had never been any counseling from my manager, no incidents around anything that would have caused this type of result. The “for cause” designation had devastating consequences — I lost all insurance benefits within three days, leaving both myself and my fully disabled child without coverage. It also meant forfeiting my restricted share rights and other earned benefits.

I’ve since learned from credible insiders that the company has increased “for cause” terminations to avoid severance payouts.

For any manager reading this: even when you follow the handbook, document everything, and align every decision with HR, you can still find yourself on the wrong side of a political or cost-driven decision. Protect yourself — document, back up every file externally, and understand the financial implications before trusting HR’s “guidance.”


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| 4840 views | | 37 replies (last December 16) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1kc4ma2e5

37 replies (most recent on top)

File an EEOC report.

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Post ID: @128+1kc4ma2e5

@n3 It would not be left up to the manager especially in the matter of harassment because it could become a legal issue.

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Post ID: @122+1kc4ma2e5

@yf sing it. Truth.

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Post ID: @121+1kc4ma2e5

@xa HR investigates then questions the employee without explaining what the employee is accused of doing until after making the employee answer several cryptic questions designed to try to catch the employee in a lie. Then HR reports back to the manager and says next steps are up to the manager. But if the manager wants to be lenient and that particular HR rep (who is often a low-level employee) doesn't think leniency is warranted, they'll pressure the manager into doing whatever that HR rep thinks is best instead. HR will say leniency would require approval from the manager's 2-up or higher, essentially backing the manager into a corner.

Throughout the process, HR will repeat the mantra that HR makes no decisions -- that it's all up to LOB management. That part is similar to how some say the performance rating curve / calibration isn't forced even though it is. In both situations, the manager must decide whether standing up for an employee is worth jeopardizing the manager's own job by bucking the system. Not surprised you're hearing that the ultimate decision is passed back to the management team but that might be shorthand for the above.

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Post ID: @yf+1kc4ma2e5

@n9 how does it work? ER does the investigation, finds a violation, and then what?

I’m hearing conflicting info and that’s why I ask. Some say that almost all issues are passed back to the management team.

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Post ID: @xa+1kc4ma2e5

@n3 managers have zero say when it comes to any policy violation. HR will pretend like they do but it's a farce.

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Post ID: @n9+1kc4ma2e5

@ja

Can HR or ER not fire you if you violate a policy? Let’s say an anti-harassment policy. Is it still the manager’s choice to let them get by with a warning?

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Post ID: @n3+1kc4ma2e5

Total bs. Fake post. ER does not have the power to solely fire anyone. We have a process in place to prevent this type of termination. The person posting this is just trying to get a rise out of people. Fake

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Post ID: @ja+1kc4ma2e5

We should start a class action against WF malpractice in employment https://www.classaction.org/search?q=Wells%20Fargo

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Post ID: @fd+1kc4ma2e5

After almost four years in a technology team, I was terminated right before the holiday seaons
on reason of "poor performance" and did not receive any severance package. They are so evil to reduce cost
that they cannot just wait another two weeks for the new year and let us have a good holiday.

The technology team in which I worked on has no diversity at all. If counting offshore members, it is 90% Indians.
If couning US employees only, it is almost 85%. The Indian managers just want to push non-Indians out so that they
can hire their friends.

If anyone knows there is a class action against WF, please share info. Thank you very much!

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Post ID: @ex+1kc4ma2e5

@dn the dolt is employed by the bank to do exactly what they want here. There's no other reason someone would be that sycophantic over the bank's interests here.

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Post ID: @dw+1kc4ma2e5

Attention dolt who keeps trying to discredit the comments in this thread. Just go away, I’m not sure why you don’t believe this practice is being followed.

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Post ID: @dn+1kc4ma2e5

@bx
Going to ER is def a wasted effort. I doubt this story - as my friend who DID go to ER was summarily terminated after ER rubber stamped the manager's actions. And my friend had some pretty strong evidence but ER didn't care.
So, I'm on the other side of this fence, ER only exists to protect management, not the employees.
Although - if you paid attention to the annual training materials, the manager getting terminated for inappropriate activity is called out. I've just never seen it happen that way at WF.

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Post ID: @cn+1kc4ma2e5

@bw OP here. This is it exactly. The two attorneys that I consulted are obviously very well acquainted with this company. Unless there are witnesses that are willing to step forward and swear on your behalf, and you have documented evidence in a persistent manner that something has happened you’re never going to get a case they take these cases on contingency most of the time they’re going to get their money and if they can’t, then you are SOL.

They said well you could go back to ER and file a dispute but even that is a wasted effort.

On the bright side, what I can say is even in this sh---y job market I was able to find a pretty decent paying contract job.

I’m fine with people not believing in. I knew people would be skeptical. But that’s just because they want the proof of it happening to someone that they know and I really hope it doesn’t happen to any of you.

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Post ID: @bx+1kc4ma2e5

be..bc here. I tried and got nowhere. They need a strong amount of evidence because the attorney needs money and will not risk their reputation if the case is not merited. I dont know why the down votes for my statement. It is fact and not a rant. Im sorry if you are offended by calling you an id--t but dont say otherwise unless you know what you are talking about. I realize people like to think they have rights but we really do not when it comes to right to work states.

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Post ID: @bw+1kc4ma2e5

@av I know of one also and it was a similar situation as OP discussed.

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Post ID: @bv+1kc4ma2e5

Using appeal to authority arguments is the hallmark of a conservative troll. Because they need to be told what to do every second of every day.. nice and obedient

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Post ID: @bh+1kc4ma2e5

@bc consulting an attorney doesn't need to result in a lawsuit to be worthwhile. an attorney can sometimes get the employer to settle for a decent amount just to make the claim go away, even if everyone knows the former employee has a weak case. you never know.

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Post ID: @be+1kc4ma2e5

The id--ts on here who think they can get a lawyer to take your case for wrongful termination have no idea what is needed. Only blatant discrimination will go to suit. It doesnt matter if you are protected class, have proof of good performance. The only thing a lawyer wants to hear is if someone actually called out the protected term in writing or witnessed. Do you honestly think that happens? Rarely. They know how to play the game. I am sure HY put the mgrs and ER through training just like they did over Unions.

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Post ID: @bc+1kc4ma2e5

The conservatroll got so salty about being called out trying to start this rumor in the last few days that he sat down and wrote some fanfic. This site is such a freakshow.

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Post ID: @b1+1kc4ma2e5

@OP

Sounds like you have a case. Sue.

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Post ID: @b0+1kc4ma2e5

@a6 This. He always tries to add credibility to these weird little tales peppered with his pet grievances with a bit “confirming” the rumor.

“Credible insiders”…come on now.

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Post ID: @aw+1kc4ma2e5

Can’t say how widespread this is, but it’s happening in CIB. Know two who were termed last month on a team I work with regularly. Manager and I are good friends and he told me it’s happening. Again, not sure how big a thing it is but both of these people were long-term employees.

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Post ID: @av+1kc4ma2e5

Yeah this is bs.

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Post ID: @an+1kc4ma2e5

If ER actually took that drastic of an action (which is hard enough to believe on its own), there's definitely something there

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Post ID: @ah+1kc4ma2e5

This is probably the same former employee who keeps harping about eight hours in the office

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Post ID: @ag+1kc4ma2e5

@ad it’s hard to have a case either way - stop being a repugnant race - ist

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Post ID: @af+1kc4ma2e5

@OP

they are forcing managers to put “needs improvement” rating.
They also refused to put termination letter in writing, giving the same line:
"Written notices will be provided if required by the laws of your state of residence. If applicable, they will be sent to you by mail. If a written notice is not legally required, a termination letter will not be issued."

That alone was a huge red flag.

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Post ID: @ac+1kc4ma2e5

@a3 I've known quite a few people that would file a hostile work environment right before performance reviews to get ahead of it. They were terrible employees but knew how to work the system up to and including claiming short term disability to avoid getting fired or to show it was retaliatory.

Then most of ER would attack the managers as if they are guilty of mu---r. Blaming them for not coaching blah blah blah.

Sometimes, people just su-k and should be cut out.

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Post ID: @a9+1kc4ma2e5

@a7 thank you. For what it’s worth I consulted two attorneys. Because I am in an at will state-Iowa-they said, unless I could show that there was some form of discrimination for my firing such as protected class of age, gender, etc., that they are within their rights. It would be very hard to prove. This occurred just a month ago and I’m still putting the pieces together, but I truly believe in the end I’ll be better than it was before working in a toxic environment.

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Post ID: @a8+1kc4ma2e5

Taking this at face value: def lawyer up. If you followed policy and your manager is on board under see how the he-l HR can unilaterally make that decision without even an investigation. Then again I’m sure HR is just as messed up as other areas.

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Post ID: @a7+1kc4ma2e5

"I’ve since learned from credible insiders that the company has increased “for cause” terminations to avoid severance payouts."

Dead giveaway: this is the troll, guys. He really latched onto this particular conspiracy to te--orize people recently.

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Post ID: @a6+1kc4ma2e5

Lawyer up

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Post ID: @a5+1kc4ma2e5

I would talk to an employment lawyer about this. If that’s the standard, then I can just go and make accusations about people and get them fired. Where’s the proof? I would think a lawyer should be able to at least get you severance. Best of luck

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Post ID: @a4+1kc4ma2e5

"that employee went back to ER claiming I was targeting her"

clear indication misuse of system

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Post ID: @a3+1kc4ma2e5

Why Managers prefer H1Bs

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Post ID: @a2+1kc4ma2e5

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