Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

“I was diplomatically told there was no interest in my ideas or anything but my work horse mentality.”



I had the same experience. Only the managers were allowed to discuss ideas. A worker with 30+ years experience was… just a worker. They made that clear.



This would have been OK if the managers had good Ideas.

They managed the premier product for analyzing data, during a time when the amount of data in the world exploded a thousand-fold.

With that magnificent tailwind at their backs, they actually managed to shrink the company.

Id--ts. Now they need layoffs every year. They don't know how to build good products, but they know how to cut headcount.

Get out if you can. This won’t end well.

Wow! The situation was bad in 2024 when I retired. These reviews confirmed I made the right decision.
I was diplomatically told there was no interest in my ideas or anything but my work horse mentality. My increase was pathetic ~2%. Bonus was ok but nothing compared to earlier years. It was time to go.
Plan your exit. Get everything you can from SAS. Hold on to your vac time for a pay out. Take your personal holidays. Use your sick time. Get your $1200 for Wellness, see all of your doctors and get all of your tests done, refill your prescriptions. Use all of your FSA/HSA. BTW, an HSA hurts your Medicare. A FSA does not. Depending on your age skip the HSA.
SAS does ZERO for you after you retire. No healthcare, no help with Medicare or transferring your prescriptions. I have to get my doctor to send new scripts to my new pharmacy. Get a non SAS doctor. SAS won’t help there either. You need someone who will take you with your Medicare — difficult with a doctor shortage. Look out for YOU. SAS doesn’t any more. … if it ever did.
I’m SO much happier and healthier now without the stress, my blood pressure dropped so I’ve eliminated a prescription.
Come on… there is a better life after SAS.

BUMP

I say shame on you for staying at a company that has been so poorly run for the last 15-20 years. Do you really think SAS will even continue to exist in another decade? The entire management structure is built around people glowingly praising the person above them. Dr Goodnight is too old and wealth to care. Top management have walled themselves off in an echo chamber where anything short of abject groveling worship is considered a fireable offence. Shame on you for not thinking better of yourself and doing what many others already have and find a company worth your loyalty.

"that critical age point of too early to retire, too late to restart or be seen as "being a good fit" elsewhere."

I feel bad for the 50-something years old. It's a tough age to get kicked out of the company after 25 years or so. You may have to change careers and do something totally different if need be. Don't give up. Good luck.

@6fvv+1sGVd1D8

and preferably try to grow that side hustle before reaching that critical age point of too early to retire, too late to restart or be seen as "being a good fit" elsewhere. best of luck to all

@8gvb+1sGVd1D8 we may have worked together 😊.



But there were a lot of politicized departments like that. A lot.

Good luck to all.

If you had a mediocre yes person as a manager and an evil BFF of a Very Important Person as a director in your leadership chain of command, it was not a good time at all.

SAS was always a mixed bag. If you had a good manager, and did not have high career aspirations, you could have a pleasant experience. If you had a bad manager, or your aspirations conflicted with politics, you’d have a miserable time. 


The managers had little training, and no professional standards were enforced. And there was lots of politics. So people had very different experiences.

@7qhz+1sGVd1D8

It's almost as if we worked for different companies.

Also, denying someone else's lived experience is little better than gaslighting them. You can't just shake your head and dismiss it as bad data. It marks you as someone not to take seriously, and lacking basic empathy for people who were your co-workers.

If, that is, you also worked for SAS and they were, in fact, your co-workers.

@7mkf+1sGVd1D8

Exactly wrong.

@7bjk+1sGVd1D8

Exactly right.

Be a yes person. Don't have any independent thought. Go along with whatever management says enthusiastically. Smile smile smile. Talk about the #saslife on social media. Congratulate other people on their promotions while not getting one yourself. Doing these things will practically guarantee your employment at SAS for as long as the company limps along. So what's that, 2 or 3 more years?

To: @6zjb+1sGVd1D8 (why does everything have the same post id??)
HR IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE AND NEVER WAS

(but SAS has always been good to me)

I wonder whether, upon nearing a certain (old) age, it is best to not look for technical jobs. Instead, be a self-employed contractor. Or, plan to have a completely different career, possible grown out of a side hustle.

I am of that age, and still employed. When my employment terminates (by my choice or by theirs), I am done with being employed by a company or by anyone.

@6diz+1sGVd1D8



Our cases were unrelated.

Prior to my leaving, two friends were judged to be “not performing at a Principal level”. They got pushed out. They were not fired, but offered severance to leave, and told that if they did not take it, they could be fired.



I thought my project was going in a poor direction, so I suggested alternatives to my manager. Some managers at SAS will take suggestions, but others become defensive and hostile. With this one, my career went quickly downhill, with no prospect of further advancement. So I left.

After I left, two friends were independently accused of unacceptable behavior. HR got involved both times, but did nothing to help them — just assumed their guilt and protected the company. Both were offered severance to leave.

All of us were opinionated, and did not always express ourselves in the best manner. But all of us were competent, and wanted to do good work.

We had done nothing wrong. A company trying to grow would have kept us. This company is trying to shrink.

"I also left SAS in my early 60s. I was treated badly and my friends were treated worse."

What was done such that you were all treated badly? Pressured to leave? I'm almost that old, but fortunate to not have experienced any bad treatment yet.

"For all those hoping for another VRBP—first, I hope there is one. Second, the last one (the one I took) was announced mid-August. I think the first one was in that time frame also."

The 2018 one came out buried in the Open Enrollment email ... late October as I recall .. and folks done Dec 31st. The subsequent one was earlier as you said .. I think they were done Oct 31st.

For all those hoping for another VRBP—first, I hope there is one. Second, the last one (the one I took) was announced mid-August. I think the first one was in that time frame also.

@6slu+1sGVd1D8

I also left SAS in my early 60s. I was treated badly and my friends were treated worse. We all left. We were all Principals. As the OP suggests, the manager was required to replace us with junior people.

When I started looking for work, I knew there would be age discrimination. But the first time you experience that, it’s a shock. I had relatively current skills, and a marketable specialty.

The problem was, so did other people 30 years younger.

I searched for months, and I’m convinced I only got hired because of the pandemic stimulus. I could never get so lucky now.

The current tech job market stinks — especially for older people. If I were still at SAS, I’d be hunkered down, doing exactly as told, not rocking the boat. 



And finding my happiness outside of work.

Good luck to all.

I really feel for you older folks. I was in my early 60s when I left SAS a few years ago. I discovered that instead of benefitting from a long resume filled with all sorts of job skills I was in fact shunned by other companies. The primary reason was my age even though that is illegal. They all do it though. I'd be told my phone interviews were terrific and that the hiring manager really wanted to talk to me. As soon as they saw me (I look every bit of my age) suddenly I "didn't fit".
But there's another issue for people like me. When you have a long resume with one company that is seen as a liability. They think you are groomed to do things only in your company's tech and incapable of handling anything new. Plus they think you haven't kept up with today's tech regardless of that being true or not.
Another tough fact is that SAS is not like a lot of other software companies. Instead of embracing things like open source SAS insists on "rolling their own". Would you believe that at one time CTO KC planned on creating a SAS-specific web server instead of industry standards like Apache? I had just come back from Java One in 2000 and had learned all sorts of exciting new things about servlets but forget that. The result is you learn all sorts of things that are useless outside of the company.
It took me months to find another job. I had to play down my SAS experience and demonstrate self-taught tech.
So if you're headed out the door, good luck.

"I have not yet given up hope on a VRPB. Having one makes good business sense."

Maybe announced soon before all the reshuffling of T and U employees? I probably shouldn't hold my breath though.

What if we switch to pilot? https://careers-sas.icims.com/jobs/36042/senior-captain/job?hub=9&mobile=true&width=430&height=682&bga=true&needsRedirect=false&jan1offset=-300&jun1offset=-240

@5ing+1sGVd1D8

I have not yet given up hope on a VRPB. Having one makes good business sense.

Same, waiting till the end, the dream of a VRBP fading...the band playing on the deck of the titanic has nothing on me!

@3hxb+1sGVd1D8

Fair enough, I'd do the same if I were in your shoes. I assume if you lost your job tomorrow, it wouldn't be the end of the world...that makes a lot of assumptions around your spending/saving habits and retirement expectations, but if you've been making sensible decisions, you should be financially secure after 25 years at SAS.

But I was 10 years young than you when I made the decision to leave SAS. 4 years ago, late 40s.

If I was still there now in my early 50's, I'd be very worried. Not quite financially secure enough to retire with the lifestyle I'd like, and not confident enough in SAS's future to rely on another 10 years of employment. That's a tough place to be. I'm glad I left when I did.

"Others rationally calculate that, in a difficult tech job market, particularly in one’s 50s, it’s best to stay put."

As someone with just a few years until I hit 60, I can attest that riding it out for as long as I can is more appealing than trying to retool and get hired in a new company (after 25+ years at SAS).

The odds of making it 2-3 more years (with possible severance) seems a better bet (to me). And heck, even I wouldn't want to hire and train someone my age, just to see them retire in a few years.

@3qnb+1sGVd1D8

Ditto

So glad I left when I did

There's no shortage of lazy, entitled, stagnating people at SAS. The sad thing is many of the smart competent ones get lumped in with the lazy ones for no other reason than their age. This place runs like a high school, it's a popularity contest.

Some do feel entitled, and “asleep in Shangri-La”. It’s human nature to expect a future like the past.

Others rationally calculate that, in a difficult tech job market, particularly in one’s 50s, it’s best to stay put.


The one positive in these sad policy changes is that they make the situation clear. As the OP said, “If you weren't sure before, you can be sure now.”

@2rni+1sGVd1D8 spot on!

You speak to the faint whiff on entitlement that lingers around SAS. One becomes comfortable and complacent over time. I know I was guilty of that.

I only left because a friend encouraged me to apply for another job, otherwise I'd probably still be there...moaning about my lack of pay rises, the poor leadership, and the general declining state of affairs.

Here’s a practical scenario given the OP.

The Facts:

• 57-year-old Principal Developer at SAS working on an internal subsystem(s) for some product, UI/UX, or other internal infrastructural component that is trying to remain relevant, but realistically, approaching EOL, or already there.
• at current title for 10 years and have only acquired the most basic new skills necessary to maintain employment.
• average work week is 36.75 fully engaged hours. never login on the weekends.
• 28 years at SAS, 25 developing for a product or platform infrastructure.
• need to work 5 to 8 more years to “close the gap” on your retirement financial goals.
• rarely attend a conference, especially outside of SAS sponsored ones:
• very good at job and capable of mentoring a broad range of less senior employees, including interns and entry-level hires.
• see themselves as a valuable ongoing contributor to SAS, and along with other colleagues at similar career points, have “internalized their long-term value” to the company.
• are capable of learning new things, but because they realize SAS is never going to pay extremely well, are unwilling to put in overtime hours or spend own time/money learning.

In my experience at SAS (retired a few years back), the above list describes a lot of people.

When we look objectively at how capitalism and private ownership from a billionaire works, does it surprise anyone that internal mobility, especially to a new role that requires significant skill development and time to once again “prove oneself”, would require taking a lesser title, or even a reasonable downward salary adjustment?

Many people who fit the profile describe in the above list don’t really understand just how good the best people 10 to 30 years younger than them are in the industry. A 30 year old is much closer to the education that gave them the lucidity and foundational skills to learn quickly in the first place. They have typically also amassed hundreds, if not, thousands of hours of learning the latest technologies — in many cases on their own time/dime. Even if the best of them don’t apply at SAS, the principle is still valid. You can’t trade loyalty and long-term competency in a now dying technology paradigm for the technical skill and value that these young folks are capable of bringing. Even current veteran employees witness some of these young people, struggling to be productive, senior management and HR still sees the general case when it comes to hiring (then, of course there’s also the average age issue given the advertised IPO).

From SAS’ and JG’s perspective, you have been paid decently for 25+ years, and therefore SAS has already been loyal to you. His advice, all along was to live frugally, saving and investing as much as you could, and not depending on the proverbial “pot of gold at the end of the rainbow”.

Could it be, you see, that you have fallen asleep in Shangri-La?

SAS is not trying to maximize profit. If they were, they’d do mass layoffs like other companies.

For sure, they’re cutting costs enough to achieve some profit. If you’re selling a business, you want to show that it’s profitable.

And if you’re selling a business, you don’t need to keep your best talent.

But SAS is minimizing layoffs, and giving laid-off employees up to a year’s severance pay.

In its sad decline, SAS owners are more generous than any new owners will be.

Now the tragic reality is that it actually does make good business sense to treat employees like sh-t and pay them as little as possible.

It's a tacit acknowledgement from the leadership that the business is now in an irreversible and terminal decline. You don't need the best talent if the end game is to squeeze as much profit as possible in these last few years.

@1kkd+1sGVd1D8
"At the time we thought he was being altruistic..."

He literally said during interviews that he did these things because they made good business sense.

Nailed it! @1ojd+1sGVd1D8

So much for...
"Treat employees like they make a difference, and they will".
"SAS's greatest asset drives out the gate every day, I want to make sure they want to come back".
At the time we thought he was being altruistic, but actually it was only ever self serving for him and his family. Now treating employees like sh-t, is actually the best way to exit for him and his family.

“If you're still at SAS and you're giving the company your best effort, you should be asking yourself if they're giving fair compensation in return,”

Yes they are. For me at least.

@1tts+1sGVd1D8 “ At this point, anyone with marketable and transferrable skills, and whose life circumstances allowed, has left the company.”

Not even close to true.

@1lsc+1sGVd1D8

"there was no explanation of why."

I have one: why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

By this time, SAS senior leadership knows they have a huge, captive workforce. The most senior employees, through rejecting (or not being eligible for, yes) two VRBPs, then not leaving after the numerous mind-numbing re-orgs, increasingly toxic management, and layoffs, have already demonstrated their unwillingness or inability to leave the company for greener pastures.

This is the end state of the downward spiral, which SAS has been in since 2018 or so. At this point, anyone with marketable and transferrable skills, and whose life circumstances allowed, has left the company. For those senior employees left behind, working for SAS only signals willingness to put up with more abuse.

If you're still at SAS and you're giving the company your best effort, you should be asking yourself if they're giving fair compensation in return. And by that I don't mean money, but the total package. If you just want a place to wind down until you retire, or are willing to put up with that a--hole manager until the kids graduate college, or because it pays better than the alternatives, great. I salute you.

But understand that there is no silver lining. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. There is no payoff. If you believe that there is, I remind you: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."