From N&O:
“SAS Institute in Cary at No. 556”
Congratulations!
78 replies (most recent on top)
@3dk the idea that you have to lose your edge is ridiculous.
@3dk I'm just dying to zombify. I heard you are good at brain-storming, and there are no dead-end jobs. Good family meals at head-quarters.
If you are career-focused and ambitious, you should avoid joining SAS. Despite its frequent recognition as one of the best places to work, the environment won't align with your drive. The culture tends to skew toward a more settled, less dynamic pace, often described as a "retirement home" for its laid-back atmosphere. From day one, you might find yourself surrounded by disengaged, unenthusiastic employees going through the motions, which can quickly dampen your motivation. Within just a few months, you may face a critical choice: either leave out of frustration or gradually lose your edge and join that zombie band.
Must be rough going through life so bitter. Try to let it go and find happiness in the simple things.
@21h Hey don't drag the President into this!
@201
tl;dr but you sure give off those "I'm mad about something" vibes. The only thing missing from your post is the RandOM CapitaliZation and SHOUTING.
Some reasons previously mentioned for IPO:
- Succession planning (no family member or long term employee is likely to take over)
- Reward employees
Probably the former is the main goal. What do the heirs do with this asset as an alternative considering nobody wants to manage it.
Investors presumably would want to look closely at:
Succession plan and independent board
Cloud transition: to Viya?
ARR growth: key metric for SaaS growth ... is any transition to Viya or cloud having high growth?
AI product adoption: any move to anything AI?
Customer retention: keeping the customer base (probably 9 but maybe the transition)
"IPO readiness" is probably about all those factors and others, maybe quite a bit more problematic than going to GAAP, which is just a given - necessary but not sufficient. Not the real story. The story you'd want to sell. As others said, changing accounting doesn't take so many years, even if you go slow. So it's probably not accounting that causes "not quite ready yet ... one more year .... "
Apply that same logic to IPO talk. There’s no IPO; it’s theater to mollify people concerned about future viability vs. other opportunities — it gets people off his back. C’mon, people, wake up!
Like I GAF about your boredom and opinion. Who’s self-important here? Look in the mirror.
"Elitists live in a different sphere — they aren’t hunting and scrounging for resources like the rest of us non-elites."
You nailed it. The Art Department is a pet. JG tolerates it to keep wifey happier. JMP is also a pet. JG has it to keep JS out of his hair. An elite will name a product after himself. An elite says "you didn't build that". Pfft.
Both areas are safe. Both are pets. Both are inoculated against lay offs Everyone knows that. The elites get their pa-ties in a wad when others jab at the truth. They can't win that debate so they act uncouth about it.
"The fact that so many people get chuffed by those comments demonstrates the superfluous, elitist nature of this work culture."
That, or they simply get bored and tired of some self-important crank who thinks he's engaging in "multi-layered satire" by continually sending a lame "But the Art department is safe". Give me a break.
The “Art Department, which is safe” comments are a multi-layered satire of SAS culture.
Art, in my opinion, is entirely superfluous and subjective. It’s a pseudo-religion for elitists. (See “The Painted Word” by Tom Wolfe). Elitists live in a different sphere — they aren’t hunting and scrounging for resources like the rest of us non-elites.
What does the “Art Department”, which is safe, actually produce, other than self-important, “feel good” vibes? Do they contribute to the “bottom line”, or is it simply another pet area like a hotel, real estate development, or education? What is the business value, especially when businesses only want the underlying code and not the UI layer? It’s Marketing, at best.
The fact that so many people get chuffed by those comments demonstrates the superfluous, elitist nature of this work culture.
The company is its own religion. The “Art Department”, which is safe, is a sub-religion of the larger sect. Goofy belief systems are fun to satirize.
Frankly, I don’t give a sh-t whether readers find the comments funny or not. Company Man, probably doesn’t give a sh-t about downvotes. We both find entertainment value in writing them.
This is an anonymous forum. Get the fu-k over yourselves.
'But the company is ~20% smaller than it used to be. That's not stability; it is shrinkage."
External and internal factors have contributed to shrinkage. No way without a true GAAP to prove, but Viya is the largest internal factor contributing to shrinkage:
- Some customers did not want what Viya had to offer for the larger price.
- Some customers were okay with migrating to Viya until they learned the migration was not seamless and would be more expensive than just staying with v9.
- Some customers got angry when told they could not renew v9 and had to go to Viya instead. I don't think we will fully know the impact of this for several years because it will take that long for them to unplug themselves from SAS.
- Some customers are replacing SAS increasingly with free open source. This applies significantly to the young SAS user base who did not grow up with SAS. College and University SAS use and teachings have declined since SAS Institute pulled the plug on free SAS for them. Selling SAS to someone under 40 years of age is a hard sell.
- Some customers got put off by the Big German's arrogance towards them. Customer facing SAS employees can and have shared their experiences with this. Customers can't be treated like that without consequences.
The bottom line is revenue and it tells the story of the needle not moving. Factoring inflation, the company is shrinking. The Viya tree was planted long ago and it is now bearing poisonous fruit.
@1w9 I believe in the IPO for one reason: most companies fetch a better price in an IPO than in a private sale.
But ownership is clearly not eager to IPO or sell. We could see another 5+ years of slow decline -- the best outcome for current employees.
"Whatever value this company had has declined rapidly especially in the past few years."
Completely agree. AI has reduced the value of many software companies, not just SAS.
That doesn't mean SAS can't IPO or sell. But AI will probably accelerate the shrinkage of the company.
Can't believe people actually still think there will be an ipo. Remove your heads from your posteriors please. It will never happen. Whatever value this company had has declined rapidly especially in the past few years. SAS is a dinosaur. No one is lining up to grab its precious code.
If you’re a IC put your salary of 5 or 10 years ago into a cost of living calculator. Are you making about the same (or less) adjusted for inflation?
Now >THAT< is stability. I’m not sure that’s a good thing though.
It’s possible to appreciate the past, but also acknowledge the present - good luck to you
@1vj over 27 years is not an illusion.
Go tell 99% of the worlds population about your stability concerns for a job you’ve had over 27 years that paid well with amazing health insurance and all the other intangibles.
I’m sure they’ll feel your “pain”.
Yours is a pain of entitlement. And you say I’m sheltered!
I was there even longer than 27 - if you don’t get the point, you’re either very sheltered or just not paying attention - stability has become an illusion
@1vg Been there 27 years like many others. If that isn’t stability then I don’t know what is.
Have had plenty of opportunities elsewhere and choose to stay.
You can try and paint that as something other than stable but you can’t with a straight face.
@1v7 You call the situation "stable".
But the company is ~20% smaller than it used to be. That's not stability; it is shrinkage.
“ a stable high paying job”
Many of us who were laid off for reasons other than performance could have said the same thing at some point - that’s the thing, it’s great - until it’s not
“high paying job with good benefits and work life balance”
That you Company Man? Today is March 1st. You are one month early.
@1v5 I remain and would not really call having a stable high paying job with good benefits and work life balance a hardship.
But call it what you will.
I should add that, though disappointed in my SAS career, I know I was lucky. Some friends have been laid off; others are worried they’ll get laid off; and a few are hoping to be laid off, for the severance.
Those who remain have it the hardest. Good luck to all.
@1qr It is sad. Some of us are bitter, and all of us have grieved for the lost potential.
While I worked at SAS, I focused on my own projects. Due to frequent changes of direction, most of my work was discarded. I thought that perhaps I was just having an unlucky run of horrible managers.
Only after leaving did I realize that the problem was widespread. We had been #1 in our market, but our company steadily missed one opportunity after another.
When you give a large part of your career to a cause, you want that cause to succeed. We do need to move on, but for some of us, it's hard.
@1nc sad
@1m1 That describes more than one of us 😂!
Dude's just bitter and unable to move past his grief.
It's deeply weird that anyone is focused on whether or not we employ a small art dept
@1ey Acquiring companies will continue acquiring. But to reduce risk, they’ll pay less for companies that might be disrupted by AI.
For the same reason, IPO prices for such companies will have dropped.
@1ey AI is not the death of software companies.
@1er -- do you think maybe PE, Broadcom and other concerns who have historically made such acquisitions are likely adjusting their strategy based on the AI onslaught?
Clearly the SAS deal never closed with Broadcom, yet that was cooking 5 years ago. The tech world seems completely different now.
Am I missing something ?
@1dt Broadcom, private equity, and other companies that acquire enterprise software revenue streams are still looking to acquire them. That is their business model; that's what they do.
But in a more favorable environment, Broadcom clearly did not make a sufficient offer. In this environment, their price will have declined.
@1d1 I’m absolutely saying you don’t have anything to contribute about what happens after death if you haven’t died. Weird question.
with the AI Scare Trade causing SaaSpocalypse, investors are looking for oversold bargains. whether that extends to legacy software - who knows
With exponential AI disruption continuing and all the uncertainty that brings, who thinks that in late February 2026 anyone still wants to acquire SAS for "legacy revenue stream"?
JMP is used in Pharma. Pharma requires tracking and validation. Pharma doesn’t like change. JMP has value, so it is safe.
The “Art Department”, which is safe, has scores of artists. But they aren’t hanging paintings. Leave the painting hangers out of this.
@1c7 Insightful post.
"The Art Department should be outsourced"
Agreed. That it has not been outsourced supports @19d's contention that it is someone's "pet".
"JMP should be sold as a standalone company."
Agreed, if there is a private sale. In that case, JMP adds no value; nor does Viya.
In an IPO, however, JMP does add value. The IPO can be marketed as a large legacy revenue stream, combined with two smaller but growing revenue streams.
This implies that ownership wants "IPO-readiness". But if so, why is SAS being so slow about it?
One reason may be the usual failure of execution. At SAS, I saw multiple products built over 6, 8, even 10 years, by people working 35-hour weeks and in no hurry. SAS == SAS Always Slow.
Another reason may be that SAS is the CEO's life's work, and he is understandably reluctant to part with it. I would be.
@1d0
Are you saying that you don't have anything to contribute to a discussion about death if you haven't died yet? Sounds like you are.