Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

"This survey has been extended another 2 weeks haha."

HR needs a little more time to get the import to Excel working and the cross work sheet lookup that de-anonymizes the respondents is kinda tricky for someone who doesnt know SAS.

That plus they needed some time to goose some positive responses in to the questions that fared poorly.

And BH hinting that just maybe there will be stock options when the IPO happens?

busy week for the spin doctors...

@1kh I have never shown IP from another company, and never advocated that.

Screen shots from publicly available products are not company IP. Neither is sample code from personal projects.

When I had my own experience being ordered at SAS to build a “mangy, two-legged dog”, I argued against it with my manager. That hurt my career.

I had similar arguments with other SAS managers. Some of them could not tell the difference between a “two-legged dog” and a “sleek greyhound”. Others simply did not care: building the best software wasn’t their goal.

I decided that would be my last bad manager, and I left SAS. Like @1kd, I could not show my last project in interviews; it would have hurt my chances.

I had to talk briefly about that project, because it had occupied the last several years of my career. But I minimized that discussion by demoing my own personal projects. That changed the subject, and I got the job.



@1k7+1k5xscrfq If you show screen shots, code, IP from another company they aren’t going to hire you because you are a mo--n.

This survey has been extended another 2 weeks haha. Mebbe more than a few people looked at it in disgust and didn't bother completing it.

You like to show your work. Good for you. The rest of us like to do that, too.

Work for a handful of years with the manager mentioned below, recoding an old mangy two-legged dog into a new mangy two-legged dog. Never mind that you could have programmed a sleek, clean greyhound — all those efforts were forced back into the shape of a renewed mangy, two-legged dog.

Now show your work and explain that situation in an interview. Field all the questions about why the outcome was hobbled, rather than sleek and performant. Also, throw in some non-existent customer success metrics for good measure — interviewers like that. Add a positive spin for good measure! You can do it, because you’re so great and awesome!

GMAFB

I'm a software developer. I can’t remember an interview in which I did not show my work.

If I show demos, screen shots, and code samples -- and some other person is just talking -- then I’ll be the one who gets the job offer.

“ Our project was of such poor quality that showing it in interviews would have hurt my chances”

What kind of project are we talking about that you would even be able to show it in an interview? Talk about in detail sure but you can spin that positive in pretty much all circumstances.

@179 I had half a dozen managers who resisted change and ideas. That attitude was endemic at SAS. It stifled innovation.

I had a similar experience when I left. Our project was of such poor quality that showing it in interviews would have hurt my chances. I showed side projects I had built instead.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience at SAS. You are not alone.

It didn’t recover for a variety of reasons. Some were personal, some were market-related.

In the end, I had no tangible accomplishments for my time at SAS. Working with an extremely change averse individual on a sh---y esoteric product with few customers leaves you nothing to move forward with. No successes, nothing.

@173 HR and these SURVEYS are ALL ABOUT POLITICS........CORPORATE POLITICS..........and Corporations use these surveys to understand the corporate politics............it could be DEI......it could be benefits......etc......

@174 “We live in the easiest time in human history for learning and keeping up skills,”

I’d be interested in the person’s explanation anyway. Those who left SAS at 40+ faced age discrimination and outsourcing, regardless of skills.

Still, you make a fair point.

@16r+1k5xscrfq Anyone who blames others for their careers in that way weren’t gong to have good careers to begin with.

“ skills they learned at SAS were not highly marketable.”

We live in the easiest time in human history for learning and keeping up skills, If someone doesn’t or can’t it is on exactly one person.

@16t SAS is not laying off because of DEI.

Not saying DEI doesn’t exist there.

But if SAS had more DEI, or less DEI, they’d still be laying off.

Fundamentally, regardless of politics, a company has to be able to build products the market wants.

@16r why so triggered by the mention of DEI?

@15z Hopefully the moderators will delete irrelevant political comments and you can tell us why your career didn’t recover.

I know a lot of folks who left found that the skills they learned at SAS were not highly marketable.

@16f DEI has been reshaped, not reduced and it’s alive and well across corporate America

@165 didn't you hear, DEI is dead. There is no more "wokeness". Not sure what you're carrying on about. DEI is dead. The team that has been doing DEI is basically a skeleton crew now and people have been shuffled to other parts of the business. You should be happy. What are you mad at?

20+ years at SAS..........HR is here to protect the Corporation, not the employee........and to cram DEI and WOKE Politics down everyone throat!!!!!!! Enjoy

My career didn’t recover.

@12v don’t know what comment you are replying to, but it’s Pippi Longstocking, one of my childhood heroes.

Pippi Longstickings?

I hate trying to tie initials to person.

@10z+1k5xscrfq You aren’t there anymore so what are manager initials and division (at the time)

If you were willing to warn new employees in a non anonymous fashion then outing initials, division anonymously when you no longer work at SAS shouldn’t be a big deal.

@wj+1k5xscrfq Fair enough

I left SAS just before the covid onset. I had a manager in R&D that was quite hard on each of his direct team members, so much so that his entire team departed of their own free will (100% turnover with a moderately sized team for SAS). I knew others that were eventually moved underneath this manager who were also eventually forced out, thankfully landing in greener pastures.

When I left, I tried to give feedback on this manager and it fell on deaf ears. Decisions were already made and no feedback coming from myself was going to matter. HR was not going to listen to what I had to say.

Among those that were forced out after me, one former colleague reached out to me and was going through the exact same thing. I typed up a letter offering my perspective to help argue on his behalf to provide to SAS HR on past experiences (what I went through) and it was basically ignored. Happy to report this former colleague made his way out from under this awful manager and landed elsewhere and is doing well.

A few years back, this manager eventually became a non-manager and no longer oversaw a team. I was thankful for this result as he did not have any business serving in a leadership role. While he is no longer in a management role, many people had their careers negatively impacted. It speaks volumes when current team members were having lunches with incoming team members to discuss how to protect themselves while under this manager.

Long story short, I believe while HR (or whatever organization is managing this management survey) is taking employee management feedback, I highly doubt there would be any real feedback that results in meaningful and impactful action.

@tc No, just amused by you. 😉

Oh you aren’t insulted anymore?

Awesome.

@r9 That’s good to know. Thanks!

@nf If you retired 01nov2021 then you were almost certainly one of the employees taking the retirement package. Calm down. No one was offered an exit interview.

@qw Develop better reading skills. It’s entirely possible to insult people through incompetence and negligence.

@nf "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." 😂

I was a member of the Boomerang Club, so I had two exit interviews. I left bad managers both times. But the first exit interview was given by a young person who had no idea what they were doing. I just wanted to get out quickly, so gave them little information.

The second exit interview was given by an experienced HR employee. That time, I felt that the manager was doing badly, and I said so clearly and in detail. I was right; he lost 30% of his people after I left.

The second exit interview had no more effect than the first.

@nf+1k5xscrfq You took it as an insult? Oh brother. Get over yourself.

@fg I worked for SAS for 35+ years (retired 01nov21) and I was never offered an exit interview, either by HR or by my manager. It’s not as if I was a chronic complainer. I took it as equal parts insult and organizational incompetence. Not the first time for either but most definitely the last for both.

@kg

Meant in support of what originally posted. A copy/paste mistake on my part, unfortunately can’t edit on this platform. 😅

@g6

Did you selectively quote the other poster intentionally? They actually said:

I never believe that they were truly anonymous, and I didn't think anything would change based on what was said.

not what you made it look like they said:

“…they were truly anonymous, and I didn't think anything would change based on what was said.”

Those four words you cut completely change the meaning.

Ding ding ding! Correct answer!

“…they were truly anonymous, and I didn't think anything would change based on what was said.”

When I was still at SAS, I never filled out one of these surveys. I never believe that they were truly anonymous, and I didn't think anything would change based on what was said.

I have responded to the survey faithfully and truthfully for the past 10+ years, or however long they've been sending it out. every manager I have ever had always told the team repeatedly to make sure we filled it out because the manager will not get any feedback from it unless at least four direct reports fill it out.

This year I started filling it out like a good little employee and then I thought, why am I bothering to do this? Nothing is going to change. My suggestions won't be heard or considered. Anything less than positive feedback will be ignored too. I closed it out and decided not to do it this year or ever again.

Call it what you want. Call it being spoiled, call it learned helplessness, whatever. It takes a lot for me to reach this point but I have reached it and there isn't any going back for me from here. Too much trust has been lost, too many pleas for help have gone unheard, and too many people who should not be in positions of power have risen to them and held on to them for decades in many cases.

There's not anything I could say or do that would change or affect anything at this point. No one listens and no one cares.

It took me too long to figure this out. Yay for the saslife.

@f3 An exit interview is what it sounds like: when you exit SAS, HR will interview you. They take your feedback and may share it with your manager.

As @cg says, "they have no incentive or ability to implement any suggestions given."

Wow a lot of you are such whiners and malcontents ... what a miserable way to go through life, always looking to blame someone else.

@cg What’s an exit interview?