Thread regarding Saudi Aramco layoffs

Good advice for all enthusiastic new hires motivated by thick piles of dollars: stay away from Aramco, or you will be lost in a swamp of Wahhabi financial and interpersonal tricks. You will be sorry if you ever join this company. Remember, they will try to attract you with good financial package and bunch of fairy tales. The reality will be very bitter. You may survive the probation period but the question is at what cost. Good advice may be worth a fortune and mine is: folks, stay away from this company.

No better life for them but a place they can legally beat on their wives and daughters and be paid three times their worth at the same time.

Still calling the “canadian” as a Can-indian or Pak-Adian

Seems the site doesn’t want to record workplace ramadan rule enforcement.

Only a few groups and countries enforce it so rigorously and enthusiastically on everyone. Ta----n, ISIS, Al Shabob, and Saudi Arabia.

Wonder where those recent groups got the idea.

The rest of the Muslim world follows their practices without imposing them on everyone else.

What? Do you actually read any news? The West has a problem or three.

Nothing wrong with West. All problems are comming from KSA.

Im not Saudi. Im Canadian. There is lots that needs improvement but that is also true of the West. So lets not get all high on sef-righteousness. Many practices are outright against islam and against humanity here in Saudi and in the West. So let’s be fair.

Ramadan. My favorite time of year. A time of fasting and praying. Of course if the you know who, PBUH, witnessed what was going on, I can imagine he would be less than pleased.

Sleeping all day, partying all night.

Aramco is one big and huge disappointment. Though the money is great the cultural differences are so big that 1400 years is not possible to connect by any possible means. They will remain there with their god, dates, camels, oil, sand and wrapped up cousin-wives, slaves, their single dimensional economy, their oil reserves, and their expat c**k s---ers. We will have to move on to another safe place. This one is reaching its end. Not a big deal. Nobody is crying for coal mines anymore.

Time for the bad news that no amount of money buys your way off of the sht-hole list saudi.

I think you know full well why you have to close and lock the exit doors. Expecting gratitude for the way you treat your invited colleagues crosses the line from retarded to insane.

(laughing)

Stay until they retire? Maybe in the past. Not in the last 10 years.

Your turnover is the highest I've ever seen in any company.

Very, very few expats make the 10 year mark. It just isn't worth it. No amount of money is worth staying that long in Saudi Arabia.

You still haven’t addressed any of your shortcomings, choosing to instead launch accusations of your own. Why do you think Aramco pays us x4 more than you, gives us that great 401k, and medical for life? Do you ever think about that at all? It’s simple...you people lack the aptitude, but most importantly the initiative to get anything done.

I’ll reiterate what the other gentleman said: greatness starts out small. Once you fix that and you’re able to run your own homes, then maybe you can think about completely running a multi-national company.

Amazing how if things are so bad, expats stay until they retire! With medical and the best performing 401K in the US! Then whine! Talk about ungrateful! Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Amazing how saudi "greatness" is always five years down the road LOL. 9 five-year plans later, they are again on the cusp of "greatness". In 2015 they were going to be great by 2020. Now they are still going to be great, but it's 2018 and the new "date of great" is 2023.

Five years and tens of billions later 100,000 saudis have "joined" the private sector.

And 2 million more expats.

Greatness starts small. With raising your own kids and cleaning your own house. That was never in the plan hahahahahahaha.....

I wasn't laid off either. I just don't think much of a company that markets one thing at an interview and practices exactly what you are saying in the workplace. Your words validate every single statement that denigrates your company culture. Your company culture and the way you treat and the way you talk about your non-saudi colleagues reflect saudi culture. Your desparate attempts to seek validation by comparing yourself to us are pathetic.

Though American I married an immigrant. Many in the US do. Immigrants fill our neighborhoods and workplaces and we actually don't know if a colleague in our workplace is a citizen, green card holder, or on a work visa. Because it doesn't matter. Treating a colleague differently based on where they are from earns a one way trip to the door. Which makes us completely opposite. There is NOTHING comparable between us.

What I do know is that you are losing money and reducing production while our industry is growing and booming. So you, your company, and your company culture is not competitive and indeed failed miserably at going head to head with us and trying to compete.

So you bring absolutely nothing of value here and probably bring nothing of value to Aramco either. There are many, many like you there. Full of spin and smoke, always found at the celebration but can never quite explain the problem or how it was solved. Just a dead weight hanging around the organization.

You must know it if you are in here speaking. If you want to show us how important you are go build something other than a presentation. Gather your thousands of highly trained and certifed engineers and design crude to chemicals or clean fuels in Dhahran, not Spain or Houston. Good grief, 70 years, 10,000+ saudi engineers at aramco, and you can't engineer an already licensed unit locally? Work on that retard, not on words and sentences about how great you will be someday when you are 100% saudized and how much better things will be "after the magical IPO". If you were worth sht there would be no need for an IPO in the first place.

I wasn't laid off, I retired (and still am). You seem to think that any resentment being picked up on your end is simply due to being laid off? You're missing the whole point...

Its quite simple, US citizens working in Saudi are on work visas, they are the hired help. A temporary not permanent solution. That's why they have an expat package, not a local package. Whining about being laid off as being unfair and the entire system is failing because there are less US employees when the system is actually being rebalanced and the company is doing well is really an unfair picture to paint. This website is about Saudi Aramco layoffs but became the place to abuse and denigrate everything Saudi. Its only fair that US citizens disgruntled at being laid off in a foreign land do some introspection in how they treat foreigners to their country. Their deluded image as the US being equally fair to citizens and foreigners alike is not universally shared.

True, at 10 years it has to be renewed or you can apply for CITIZENSHIP...So how are you comparing your fees to mine then if a residency card is valid for 10 years and you pay for it once? Is Saudi going to confer citizenship anytime soon? Wouldn't really matter, it might be one of the most restrictive passports to travel on in the world so I can't imagine that would do anyone any good. Maybe the children of Saudi mothers married to foreigners would be a good place to start though?

Wrong, residents get SSN cards just like citizens do and in my 40+ years of living in America, owning a business there (previously), I have yet to see a green card holder discriminated against. I am sure it happens, but again, I've never seen it.

You'll find it difficult to alter opinions here when you're utilizing references from MSN news to try and prove a point against people (me) that are American, live there, and know what they're talking about.

You are wrong again. Residency cards have to be renewed every 10-years and there is a filing charge each time. The DHS also want to expand surveillance of permanent residents. Police State? Permanent Residents do not have the same rights as citizens, nor the same job opportunities. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dhs-secretary-says-us-needs-to-continually-vet-some-legal-residents/ar-AAuLEv2?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=spartanntp

Counting two stacks of money is very confusing

The U.S. is a Nation of immigrants, always has been and always will be. The difference is that they don't hand out jobs, or discriminate based on where you're from. It's actually illegal, and stated as such on most job applications. There's far to many successful people from ALL walks of life for you to prove otherwise. This is unlike here in Saudi Arabia where jobs are given or discrimination against working in certain sectors is the new way all based on whether you have a Saudi passport or not.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for Saudization (done the right way). But the current philosophy of handing out opportunities based on nationality alone and not competence is shocking. How do you think that will turn out? Look around...the infrastructure is a disaster, medical sector is worse, and economy is in free fall. But as someone else pointed out...a city called NEOM ran by robots will save the day?

Lastly, in America you pay for a residency card once (conditional residency) when you file the I-485 for a total of $1,225 (14-78 years old). Once approved you're all set, and there's no entry/exit fees, iqama bs, or anything else.

FYI....I am half Saudi myself but that doesn't excuse me from overlooking the disaster that this place is quickly becoming.

Flint, Michigan is also a sh-thole where nobody would voluntarily live or bring their family to. Very good comparison!

Flint Michigan is the place you can't drink the water. You might want to consider the anti-immigrant rhetoric in the US of A before you start calling other nations intolerant. You should also look up the cost of what the US charges for resident visas before implying Saudi visa costs are expensive.

Well played.

Depends on where one is from. Game? Vermin? This can, to some, be very confusing.

I thought vermin were frozen by headlights. My bad.

Nothing scatters vermin like a big ole headlight

When the policy of pre-determined outcome of the annual appraisal process with upcoming dependent fees+cost of visas to enter and exit exceeding the cost of a mortgage+the collection of taxes from non-Saudis to set up accounts for cash payments to Saudis is coupled with the substandard living conditions (water you can't drink, an intolerant culture outside your walled camp, constant barrage of negative press about non-Saudis, a culture of lying and corruption) it became evident that Aramco and indeed Saudi Arabia is indeed a bad choice overall for working and living and bringing a family into. You guys can have it with best wishes and good luck!

"nobody who cannot perform should be realeased" is how you get a huge mass of thousands of circling "supervisors" floating around the organization in "acting" roles because you are prohibited from letting them go. Though it was mis-stated it summarizes the current state of saudi aramco.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/930491/saudi-arabia

This was the "direction from the board". Note the date.

How many of us already knew about "the list" and that it was coming in a few months when this announcement was made?

Aramco then tried to spin this "list" as "eliminating bad performers" or compare it to "what US companies do" but we know full well how performance appraisals are done at Saudi Aramco. The midyear and end of year "appraisals" consist of a auto-generated request to acknowledge a meeting that was never held by a saudi supervisor who rarely understands exactly what the job entails. So the list is not a list of appraised employees at all. It is a predetermined list of who will be the bad performers for the layoff cycles and we all knew it. This saudi idiot is STILL trying to spin it as if we didnt know what was coming when the CEO said what he said.

This is what broke trust and nothing else. Absent the retirement our DD after taxes was the same and we certainly don't need a repat allowance on eternal repat so it makes no difference to us whether we work and live in saudi or worked in the US. Schools are the same, house is much bigger, i own my work, and i dont have to drop what i am doing every few days to explain it in simple small words to the people i work for in simple powerpoint because the people i work for earned their seats by understanding the business. Its like breathing fresh air after being trapped in a box and Aramco was just a bad dream.

Job security is different in the context of an uprooted family with no options compared to a wide open job market where you can work anywhere. The risk / reward chart looks a little different. When at any time a company can start pre-determining your performance in advance the risk in my view was no longer at a tolerable level. Anyone who considers saudi aramco in the future needs to clearly understand what they are agreeing to and that although saudi aramco is marketing itself as the old company they do NOT fall under the category of regular employees. They are simply short term "hired help". So aramco might attract the best, but aramco does not have a chance of a snowball in hell of retaining them.

Okay can we try to get back to center? Can we stop talking about dual intense(sic?) Yes we all know PMP is a bad joke with expats getting the brunt of the punch line. Having said that, I see a few good Saudis getting the shaft too so PMP is just plain wrong. That is not just a Saudi problem. PMP is killing motivation across the globe.

What I want to focus on is job security. Nobody who can't perform, can't communicate, is corrupt or otherwise cannot should be released. Any company would do that and any employee, however disgruntled, should accept that result.

Getting the best of the best is not easy and Aramco is not all that competitive. In fact they are becoming less competitive almost by the month. But the one serious attraction of Aramco was job security (for good performers). Just do your job, play by the rules and retire. Aramco has changed those rules. Hire any American with the promise of vesting at 5 years and then surplus him at four. Promise medical at 10 and get laid off at 9. The sad part is that is it is all done at the recommendation of a consultant. So is Aramco making bad decisions? Probably not. Just check the Latest Posts of this web site.

Aramco reducing benefits under the guise of being competitive with the market is probably not far off the mark. It is what it is. What I do not like is how they change the rules "after the fact". I remember when they changed the rules on the "look back" pension calculation. It was so funny that the expat in charge of that policy had coincidentally passed the cutoff date. I felt like money had been stolen from me.

My only point is that, if you hire anybody, just live up to the contract. Don't change the rules later. If you want to change rules, do it for new hires. They accept what they sign up to. Unfortunately that is not what has happened and that is why trust has been broken.

In conclusion, at saudi aramco the expatriate employees are valued so little they have to either schedule their own performance meeting (they don't have access to that particular button but in the dim fog of saudi logic that is the employee's problem) or just accept the auto-generated notification that the meeting was held when it was not.

If you are a world class talented employee it is a great workplace for you!

Did you just say that expats should schedule to meet with their bosses via the PMP to discuss important issues? Frankly speaking, I have been here for several years and have yet to have a face-to-face interaction regarding my PMP, although it's a requirement. I simply get an email requesting that I acknowledge the meeting has occurred and that is the standard practice for all expats within the department.

Also, perhaps the board is communicating the direction, but to whom? It certainly isn't making its way to the expats, the very existence of this blog is proof of that.

I agree that setting something in stone isn't practical due to ever changing dynamics, but it's silly to suggest that the board does a good job ensuring that everyone is well-informed of at least their intentions. Again, I want to be clear....no information makes it to us, half-truths do, or lies.

You don't get to say that it's all okay because this company pays us well either.

Rumormongering has always occurred, its merely shifted the communication medium to online. IMO the pace of change in the Kingdom requires the company to adapt to the same pace and the direction is clearly communicated from the Board. Obviously, there are multiple ways to achieve the objective so mapping out a set in stone pathway for your career and fit is unreasonable, being flexible and adapting to changing dynamics is the best path forward. There are very few companies that have provided the level of job security and rewards that the company has provided. It is why it still attracts world class talent. Expats can also be transparent and show some initiative by scheduling a meeting with their boss and discussing what is happening. You can schedule a meeting in PMP.

This Saudi is getting the "spray and pray" treatment because he deliberately got on here to taunt laid off employees.

He's going to get nailed until he leaves and this will not stop until he's gone.

As far as putting them down - what did deeply disgust me is how saudis treat non-saudis and whatever gets said here is fairly earned.

This guy needs to go and one way or another he's getting his a$$ escorted out.

One more thing...it’s not ok to denigrate someone else. I despise it, and I won’t defend anyone partaking in it no matter where they’re from.

However, you mentioned rumormongering. This is happening a lot lately, and is a frequent complaint in many departments.

For the Saudi gentleman, why do you think that is? When I first started it didn’t happen. I’m blessed to be in a position now where I don’t need to care about these rumors (many others aren’t). However, it troubles me as to why they’re so common in today’s Aramco.

IMHO, it has much to do with the downward trend in leadership ability. Leaders should be open and transparent as much as possible, don’t you think? It’s the expats that have offered their valued services to this company, and have uprooted their families to move them here. In return, a leader (manager) owes it to them to provide accurate and inciteful information about which direction the company is headed.

Sadly, this isn’t the case and is the main catalyst of all the rumors you hear. I know of some departments that conduct high level meetings in which only Saudis can attend and addresses very important issues that directly effects their expat employees. That info doesn’t make it to them, and when it does it’s either a watered-down version of the truth, or is blatantly false.

So who’s to blame for the rumors?

I’d like you to consider what I’ve just said. If you’re in a leadership position are you transparent and honest with your employees?

I hope so.

To the Saudi gentleman...I have nothing against you, your culture, or this country. Unlike many other Westerners, I enjoy it here.

However, there is an exodus occurring that’s not directly attributable to “normal attrition”. The company is changing rapidly, and not in a good way. I’ve been here 19 years and wished I could say otherwise, but it’s true...the ship is sinking.

With regards to the airport comparison you’re simply wrong. Why? Because you’ve used a singular incident of personal experience to compare with something that happens to every expat on a routine basis. Poor quality and service is such an issue, that we drive to Bahrain. Also, in case you’ve forgotten, longer waits in our lines are directly attributable to increased security protocol as a result of 9/11. You know that incident in which 19 Saudis hijacked some airplanes with your government’s help. Proof? The IPO won’t be happening in the world’s largest and most valuable stock exchange for two reasons: SEC compliance (impossible) and the impending lawsuit you’d open yourselves up to by those seeking damages from the incident.

Lastly, you come off educated and well read. But it’s your blind defense of a failing system that is concerning.

I guess it’s better to be blind if you’re a Saudi?

You didn't look enough and definitely don't know much, which is to be expected who comes to this site just to denigrate Saudis and rumormonger.

only saudi-made things i ever saw were plans

only saudi-made export i know of is screaming crazed wahabbis

Dual intent is concurrent application for immigrant status on a non-immigrant visa.

You seem to be incapable of grasping the difference between immigrant and non-immigrant.

I see a couple of possible reasons for this: KSA has no immigrants (and) KSA has had an unbroken 1400 year run of cousin marriage inbreeding limiting the ability to conceptualize the difference between two completely different categories of non-citizens.

Which means a non-Saudi probably needs to make you some simple powerpoint pictures, put them up on a wall, and spend a half hour explaining it.

You represent Saudis, Saudi Aramco, and the Saudi Aramco workplace very well. It is becoming very apparent why all things with moving parts in Saudi are non-Saudi made except for moving Saudi mouths and whatever moving parts are required to produce more Saudis.

Again: Fck off. You are not welcome here.