Some engineers don't like to constantly keep their mgrs up to date with every hour updates and expect that mgr would come to know in the next 1:1 or from the dotted line mgr or from status report.
I want to know from all people (genuinely)
Is it really a bad thing what an engineer is doing ?
My Manager fought for my SL3 after performing good for the 3 quarters of my first year. I now wonder How ugly things could have turned out, if it were SL4, Had he not fought.
Managers know deep inside they would never be successful in the real world. They will do whatever to stay with Intel until the end...meaning 2 more years.
Don't worry intel will soon die a horrid and very public death.
The idiots managing and doing focal will all blindly follow BK down with the ship.
The strategy are flawed so layoffs won't fix a thing. Those that got pushed it was unfair and unjust be happy you are off and go find something better and let the titanic with its merry band of idiots sail to their death
"People that got sl4/5 because they were new hire are excluded from ISP because they didn't get that due to performance reasons."
The algorithm didn't seem to differentiate... If you got S/SL4 you were out.
The issue is that some managers gave SL4s to new (and successful) employees and some did not.
People that got sl4/5 because they were new hire are excluded from ISP because they didn't get that due to performance reasons.
...if this is the case, then why didn't all (or nearly all) of the "new to Intel" employees get SL4s and their walking papers as part of ISP? New people in my group mostly got S/SL3 (I brought this to my manager's attention). The S/SL4 is just a passive aggressive way for manager's to punish people who have done nothing wrong (and probably a lot of right) without documenting anything.
Perhaps only 75% of Intel managers are bad...
"My manager said that she gave me S/SL4 because I was 'new to Intel.'"
"This is an HR policy for people that joined in Q3 and Q4. As a manager, I hated it, because stock is supposed to reward future potential as BK recently said. Unfortunately, there's nothing first level managers can do about it. Perhaps upper management can override it, but certainly not at first level management. To claim 95% of managers are bad because of this is an unfair statement."
The FLM and SLM are especially bad in FSM. Simply put, these are all "promoted" engineers who have no concept of management nor were they interested in the position. They just have engineering backgrounds but no experience in leading people so they just ad-lib based on their own judgments. Most are total failures and mere puppets for those above them.
The company is a joke and a complete mess. Ive never known such a slow decision making process made all the longer by managers who do nothing other than ask questions to try and prove their worth. Managers dont listen when you suggest something that may upset a few people yet they take any good inputs and pass if off as their own work.
"My manager said that she gave me S/SL4 because I was 'new to Intel.'"
This is an HR policy for people that joined in Q3 and Q4. As a manager, I hated it, because stock is supposed to reward future potential as BK recently said. Unfortunately, there's nothing first level managers can do about it. Perhaps upper management can override it, but certainly not at first level management. To claim 95% of managers are bad because of this is an unfair statement.
"Ironically, my manager wasn't judged poorly for having nearly 60% (!) turnover among her"
I do believe this is a metric that shows how effective a manager is at inspiring people and fostering a great work environment. I have seen similar situations and agree that the manager should be held accountable for consistently larger than average turnover. Perhaps this does happen to a certain degree, but we just don't see it. Some managers did leave due to ISP.
There are 3 things people can do when you have bad managers and you feel HR is not helping you.
-move to a different team. contrary to what some people are saying, not all managers are bad. if bad managers fail to retain good people, eventually Intel will figure out what's going on.
-move to a different company. again, if top performers keep leaving the company, Intel will see the pattern and work on the problem.
-become a manager yourself. why not try fixing the issue yourself if you think you can do it better? that's what I did. I haven't fixed all the issues that I see yet, but I believe I've helped to make a difference.
"Any manager who expects updates every hour from an engineer doesn't understand engineering and has no place in the management chain at Intel...It's a clear message that the manager's time is important and the engineer's..."
Managers who behave this way are managing UP...
@I0DFd3H-1hsz : Your comment about the manager sounds exactly about my previous manager. MFT is a joke for sure.
Managers at Intel do not do any work. That's not the norm anywhere else.
BRUNT of manager's work is done by levels below them.
Sad and 💔 😥 sorry for the people working in trenches and lower grades who do their manager's work for them and get piled with endless amounts of work ..
please get out, you don't have to live like this !💔 😥
Managers at Intel are totally spoilt and unhireable outside Intel, no way they can survive in the real world in any kind of other company, small or large or startup.
Managers at Intel have HR & Legal to save their wrong doings and encourage bad behaviour, an admin dedicated to manage their calendar and remind them of basics, all staff reporting to them doing all their work, they only attend meetings and talk/sleep through the talks .. etc .. rest you see below ..
To tell The (plain) Truth: managers in INTEL are not too much involved in their work!
GTFO of Intel.
in Intel, manager is very powerful
In fact, they are. They can make it or take it upon you. But, for them, unfortunate reality is that they can do in ONLY in INTEL.
Bottom line, 95% of INTEL FLMs and SLMs are assh0les, idiots, asskissers, they indeed have Virtual Reality visions about IT overall... But if you are worth, you should move on. Forget, never forgive.
And, my dear friend, do NOT expect any better in any new midst or big companies you board. Expect the same sh.it, even worse.
Any manager who expects updates every hour from an engineer doesn't understand engineering and has no place in the management chain at Intel. If a large decision is pending then it's fine for a short period, but interrupting a complex task for your own curiosity is simply the dumbest thing you can do. It costs massive amounts of productivity each time a manager interrupts somebody, something engineers are very aware of and hate. It's a clear message that the manager's time is important and the engineer's isn't despite the fact that the engineer is the one making progress on a real task that impacts the company's bottom line.
I had a manager like that. They went from person to person bugging them about status all the time, in person, over email, IM and sometimes calling your cell phone. It was the worst. Morale was terrible and everyone talked about why behind the manager's back simply as a way to vent. The entire team consistently fell behind, which of course triggered more status interruptions and slowed things down to a crawl. All because the manager was hoping to get a nugget that they could quickly pass up the chain to get attention. Sadly, this particular manager's MFT "passing" scores dropped to 0% and absolutely nothing was done about it, proving that the MFT is a joke. I haven't answered a single one since.
Microsoft understands how to maximize employee productivity using their managers. To quote Joel Spolsky: "Compare this to Microsoft, where things are done at the lowest level, and most managers act like their most important job is to run around the room, moving the furniture out of the way, so people can concentrate on their work"
There is no trust, and many places the management has no clue and thus needy as that is their only value the have to justify their existence
The reality in Intel (even since Grove's departure) have been one of relationship rather than meritocracy. This culture have gone from bad to worst. It doesn't matter if you are competent and get things done. If for whatever reasons your manager doesn't like you, it doesn't matter what you do. You will be targeted for lower ranking. However if you are close with your manager and higher ups, you will go up irrespective. This is evident in groups where the dept head is those who like to socialize. Look no further, just look at IT and MIT. Promotions are based on happy hour drinking and dinner entertaining the higher ups, weekend cycling sessions, overseas holidays with the boss and his family. It's obvious for all to see!
Get a job losers
Intel system is a 3rd world dictatorship. Too many insecure, aggressive managers who never took a management class and are not accountable for failure. They are good at kissing ass though.
"Contrary to what you guys are saying, most managers do not willingly give SL4 or SL5. For one, they want to give as much money to people as possible so that they don't lose people.... If there's anything you want to blame, it's the system. Focal is not perfect, but you're welcomed to move to a company with a better system and better set of managers."
You've clearly worked at Intel (and probably only Intel) way too long.
Most modern companies have long abandoned FOCAL-style evaluation systems. And most modern companies invest more in their managers than having them take some online classes each year. That the quality of managers across Intel varies widely would be an understatement. There are probably some decent ones. I've experienced most really, really bad ones.
I agree that many managers try not to give out SL4/5. The problem is that when they do give them out, the reasons are all over the board...and I'd bet that their allocated for political reasons as often as for actual performance-related ones. And probably because the person didn't understand the 1990's software tool for the rest!
My manager said that she gave me S/SL4 because I was "new to Intel." In reality, it was because she perceived me as a threat (you know, someone new, accomplishing a lot, getting external awards, etc.). In the toxic culture of Intel, managers feel threatened when their employees do well, especially when they can't take credit.
Ironically, my manager wasn't judged poorly for having nearly 60% (!) turnover among her direct reports. You know, all of those people own their own careers, so the people who left or were run off must be doing something wrong (and not their manager...) LOL
I will be moving to a company with better rating system, managers and culture than Intel. It would be hard to find worse.
"Intel system has created a bunch of a--hole manager (GLs) and destroyed employee's skills, innovation and willingness to work. The training system is totally broken. They keep saying: You own your own training. You own your own career. Slogans are great. In reality my manager has never trained me a single thing. He does not even have 5 mins to discuss or train me on something. He is overstressed, paranoid, and abnormal."
It's not possible to truly "own" your own training or career when you're not give time or resources for real training and your career progression is completely in the hands of your manager
It's really just a cop out for managers who don't "own" being responsible for their teams' excellence. It's much easier - and somehow acceptable at Intel - for a manager to point fingers at people who they manage and say that their under-performing. Anywhere else that I've worked managers are held accountable for the people...and weak or under-performing people are viewed as a reflection of the manager. Somehow toxic Intel culture has switched the two.
100% agree with one of the comments yes u are at your mgrs mercy you are doing an excellent job exceeding customer expectations but you're mgr does not like you u don't suck up to him/her. You will be the first to be ISPd when required by Corp goals etc. ISPd in 2015.
I'll reply to this at some length when / if things settle down. I can vouch for the 'paranoid, abusive, secretive and abnormal' manager part. So why did I stay ? I was receiving recognition from all around, a steady stream of divisional recognition awards [ DRAs ] , SRAs and the like. My peers and myself worked well together. The structural issues at Intel however run very deep and in the medium to longer-term , will
or may prove extremely deleterious to Intel [ cf: Sperry, Burroughs, DEC, IBM, HP as others have alluded to ] . I'm active in my job search and will post more as I get more information.
Intel system has created a bunch of a--hole manager (GLs) and destroyed employee's skills, innovation and willingness to work. The training system is totally broken. They keep saying: You own your own training. You own your own career. Slogans are great. In reality my manager has never trained me a single thing. He does not even have 5 mins to discuss or train me on something. He is overstressed, paranoid, and abnormal. Intel system has created so many abnormal managers who make their employee's daily life miserable. I am leaving Intel in August and just wanted to say Good Bye..i am not taking or getting any package. Leaving At my own Will.
@I0DFd3H-1rcx Thanks HR.
Contrary to what you guys are saying, most managers do not willingly give SL4 or SL5. For one, they want to give as much money to people as possible so that they don't lose people. Unfortunately, performance is relative, so when a distribution is forced, some people will get it. Many people on this forum seem to believe that everyone at Intel are doing a great job. In that case, some good people will get SL4/SL5 through no fault of the manager. Up until recently, it wasn't known that SL4/SL5 could lead to termination. So it wasn't possible for managers to give people SL4/SL5 with the intention of getting someone fired. If there's anything you want to blame, it's the system. Focal is not perfect, but you're welcomed to move to a company with a better system and better set of managers.
@I0DFd3H-isb is correct. If a manager doesn't like you, even though you may be doing a good job, all he/she needs to do is to give you SSL4/5 and a satisfactory rating.
Looks it is the manager's entire personal discretion to award SSL4/5 to whoever he/she wants.
Depends if your manager trusts u to do your job. If he/she doesn't then u might get micro managed. U can try talking with your manager and agree on a regular status update. Important to work on communication. You are judged at Focal based on your manager's perception of what u did and how well. Good luck.
As we've seen with the ISP criteria, a manager can end an Intel employees long and successful (or just beginning and promising) career with no more justification than a successful rating and a low stock grant.
What justification is needed to give a low stock grant? Absolutely nothing...
The premise itself is wrong. Who gives or expects hourly updates??? Unless it's a sweat shop/assembly line.
But yes there are managers who want to micro manage and keep the team threatened with either loud voice or with questioning in a meeting with 20 other people. There are some narcissts who love their own voice and can speak rubbish for an hour with an expectation that their team is made up of robots who are programmed only to obey orders . I wonder where is that Intel which had a culture of "constructive confrontation" , " disagree and commit" et all!!!
Directs can make you or break you.