"The study found that, on average, students pursuing bachelor’s and associate’s degrees at for-profit colleges saw their earnings drop, compared to before they started the program. The overwhelming number of students who don’t complete their degrees account for most of this pattern. Six years after attending these programs, for-profit college attendees were not only earning less, but were often saddled with debt and often without new credentials. Cellini and Turner theorize that dropping out might have been a negative signal to employers about a person's productivity, essentially leading employers to assume that this wasn't a person who “got things done,” which in turn led to lower pay. The outcomes were far more positive for students who completed their degrees, for whom the researchers found a slight increase in earnings—about $3,500 to $4,000 more per year.".................................................http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/for-profit-earnings/485141/
54 replies (most recent on top)
@6gvj... Yep. I agree. So many bratty managers, fin aid reps, & admissions folks.
"Financial Aid Officer breathing down your neck"? At least yours stick around to see whether you filled out the forms correctly. Mines? That person left me alone for a good hour for me to fill out some forms without any information, including repayment planning. I have no idea what I was doing and that person couldn't have bother to get another officer to be in their place while doing who knows what (probably filing new students financial forms as at that time it was close to summer session). And about the ads? I thought I was seeing things, but wow those types of ads did appear! You would think it would give people the red flag about the quality of the education to the general public eye.
It goes deeper than just a bunch of pissed off students. The school is 100% to blame for colluding with the DoE and lenders like, Sallie Mae. Regardless if they graduated or not, students still have difficulties securing employment because employers do not recognize a degree from any for-profit. There is not one employer who takes for-profit schools and their education seriously. And the students? Many of them are looking for opportunities to get out of the poverty or bad situations they are in, and many of them have been left worse off than the media lets onto.
There are students who came from broken homes. Many of them probably had one parent or no parents, little to no family to guide them or fall back on. Maybe a few of them were new parents who needed to revive their skills and get a career. Perhaps some of them were trying to make the best of a bad situation. Homeless kids who had no where else to go, no one to confide in, and viewed obtaining an education as a way to help themselves. In any case, those people are survivors.
Now, whether they graduated or not, they have insurmountable debt. Debt that cannot be discharged for any reason whatsoever. People are carrying the mistakes and bad decisions of the school, the DoE, and the lenders on their back. Do you know what it's like to fight for your survival everyday? Hoping that any recruiter or HR department calls you in for a look at your portfolio, and hoping like hell they don't ask where you went to school? How about trying to explain why you can't make a single $500 payment on your loans because you are trying to pay for all your other expenses, so you're not thrown out on your ass What then? If you can't support yourself and give yourself a respectable standard of living, how can anyone make a payment on a student loan? How about when Sallie Mae reps say you should have picked a better school before taking out loans?
There are so many out there who deal with the constant barrage of debt collectors because they can't make the loan payments, have bad credit, and no job prospects because they were swindled. Many were already down on their luck, and attending this school -- or any for-profit -- magnified the problems tenfold. And yet, it's the students who were in the wrong.
Go f--- yourself.
Wait a minute how are these student's "failing themselves' when your entry requirements are so low its a joke? Lets see...a 2.5 GPA for Game Art Design and a 2.0 for Media Arts and Animation? I'll give you one guess which one got a "rigorous" 25 image portfolio check to look for basic drawing capabilities. Hint : it wasn't the degree that was peddled for being drawing heavy for 2D. They spun such a low GPA requirement as "we dont want grades to bar people who are creative types who may not excel in the classroom because studies prove it". FYI I was a 3.98 coming out of High school, so I definitely wasn't "functionally broken".
And lets see-those who went between the early 2000's had no real way to double check these statistics (as grads were literally bullied or sometimes not even aware their successes were being peddled by the school to draw people in). You forget those who grow up in hellholes of towns have nothing better before them than either getting out or become trapped and have kids. This was that "golden ticket" they so graciously waived in front of their face. They targeted specific groups of people, sent aggressive recruiters to high schools in small towns many times a year and anyone they got on the hook early they kept in heavy contact with.
No, I pay my loans on time every time, and whenever I try to change due dates just to sync up with paychecks I have to let them lapse for 1 SINGLE DAY late before they suddenly freak out and actually take action. Fedloans (ofc not in any way affiliated with EDMC/ the AI's but definitely just as scummy.
By the way we can't take out money for loans unless, you know, we go through the paperwork with your overly attached Financial Aid Department breathing down our necks to renew the green, or else you can't continue your education at SUCH A GREAT SCHOOL! Right? I mean wow, would have thought that we could make so much money disappear from the government on our own eh? (I'm being sarcastic if you couldn't tell) I mean of course we are making all these "stupid" choices, when we have to find out half way or 2/3 though college that you guys are being hired, literally, off the streets with 0-2 years of teaching experience through a CRAIGSLIST AD! (not joke that Craigslist ad for my school was circling around our campus for a week before it mysteriously disappeared.) That was the parameters I kid you not. 0-2 years. With no teaching credentials. Heck you didn't even necessarily need industry experience to be a teacher, how swell is that?
Stop calling us lazy when the system you operated in couldn't even be bothered to look into the teachers they hired and had arguably higher turn over rates than employment rates for their own sorry graduates.
@HGr5klw-4bwh, what you are talking about is "projection"--it's a common defense mechanism. These EDMC workers are feeling defensive (and perhaps guilty) about their roles in this fiasco. If there are any EDMC workers left with any sense of justice (especially if you are a teacher) , please do the right thing and blow the whistle.
To the folks calling students lazy and expected hand outs.... you may not realize it, but you're doing exactly what you accuse of us! Expecting your company to hold your hand to keep your precious job and you continue to stay blind from all of the proof that it's a sinking titanic. Maybe it's YOU guys who are lazy to find a new job and pointing blame at the unfortunate to make yourself feel better. I can't imagine what nothing you will have when you lose it. Oh wait, I can.
wow so many defensive, butthurt, soon-to-be ex-employees. Looks like we scared the sh-- out of you all. Go ahead, keep defending this curse of a company. Be proud of your nickel stock and plummeting enrollment. Word's out, these schools suck. You never even had job security to begin with so those who are still here must be full of the koolaid because literally every statistic, study, and fact points to places like for-profits to be a massive crock of bullshit. Wake the f--- up morons, time to get out of denial.
Huh when you put it that way let's see: So the fauculty felt the need to not get blamed by the students and that their firing and layoffs are completely coincidental because their bosses feel like firing people for kicks. When your coworkers chose students on a gamble that they will be fired due to the student's laziness, I suppose it warrants them to cry out it is not their responsibility even though they themselves chose that action? That the faculty believes they're getting demonize because everyone outside their industry knows that the numbers don't add up. Even it is their own responsibility to guide students, they chose to be silent and let the blame fall to students? So when you mention how the students don't do hard work does that mean future generations should just stand back and watch you do the hard work for the next few decades? Sounds like a plan! I mean clearly this generation of students doesn't know the true meaning of hard work from where you came from. Why don't we observe until you either are fired, layoff, or doing freelance and then we follow your lead. In the meantime, us students have the responsibility to represent the school the way it truly is, by simply showing the hard work EDMC scam others.
The student loan scam trumps the house scam 100 fold!
@HGr5klw-4ddh, Also, how is a lifetime of debt peonage (for many) a "free pass"?
@HGr5klw-4ddh, your techniques of neutralization about EDMC and directing the blame at students (e.g. "If it wasn't EDMC it would have been the local Junior college that "screwed" them") are the thoughts that will ensure that EDMC destroys itself. It is eerily similar to Enron.
@HGr5klw-4ddh, your techniques of neutralization about EDMC and directing the blame at students (e.g. "If it wasn't EDMC it would have been the local Junior college that "screwed" them") are the thoughts that will ensure that EDMC destroys itself. It is eerily similar to Enron.
4ddh I can't agree with you more. Those lazy, stupid kids caused all of this, and so many of these types were attracted to exactly this college. What are the odds? Some things are just meant to be I guess. And I have to hand it to them, they were able to move billions of federal dollars all over the place while not getting educated. That's a crazy trick if I ever saw one.
The vast majority is not just students that have dropped out. Get your facts right before you get grouped with the Trump supporters and Fox News group!
Let's be real here. The vast majority of those screaming scam and I shouldn't have to pay these loans are people that started and failed, stopped going, or were academically dismissed. They are people that feel there should t be any responsibility for their actions and take the easy way out everytime. There are outliers of course and EDMC itself "allegedly" used deceitful recruitment techniques. But by and large the people upset are looking for another handout in a life full of them. If it wasn't EDMC it would have been the local Junior college that "screwed" them or any number of employees that had a boss that "had it out for them." It's a situation where one side is demonized and the other is given a free pass but in reality some, again not all, but some of the blame has to go on the students as well.
If the curriculum and teachers were actually relevant, then the students would have a chance even if they were mediocre. Re-hashed identical projects from Digital Tutors are not going to give an edge in the real world.
Whoa whoa whoa someone said hard work. Don't they realize people should be handed everything? These students shouldn't have even had to go to school. They should be handed good jobs, no hard work needed. Darn employers expecting employees to do something to get paid well.
Hey Kool- Aid!!! Oooooh Yeah!!!!
$3500-$4000 more at entry level. Those students that earn their degree get in somewhere and get experience could earn more. Of course there were bullshit recruiting practices but to act like every person who went through one of these schools is worse off is a farce at best.
The only thing that doesn't fit the narrative is the assumption that the degree is valid enough to continue the school, setting absurd hoops to jump to make more money vs dropping out to prevent further damage. Pretty sure everyone went to "set the record" police to file the "scam lawsuit" ticket to warrant your "yeah but" machine to the scrap pile called fraud.
@ that doesn't fit the narrative.
- When EDMC was being sued by the Department of Justice for upwards of 11 billions dollars x 3,
did you tell the recruits or currently attending students over the several years that the case was being litigated that they were in dire jeopardy of losing everything when and if it became necessary to shutter the doors like thieves in the night? I believe the answer would be "no." This would be called, in legal parlance, "misrepresentation of a material fact." Without the students and potential targets of EDMC's desire knowing this, one could also say that this fine organization perpetrated another fraudulent activity known as "false inducement." You see you knew these things, the chumps for the most part didn't. So you slyly didn't disclose this fact to a vulnerable target subset of neophytes (most likely because they didn't ask) and whistled while you robbed. All these activities have been extensively been reported in the press so they are part of as you call it, "the narrative."
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Now I've heard it said in this forum that the fool students got what they deserved and even that your hands were tied and you had to enroll them. So let me get this right: they come to you with a variety of motivations, some good and some questionable (as you have said); but weren't the majority just people with detectable vulnerabilities that you self-servingly disregarded just so you could reduce them to objects not worthy of anything else but to say they were stupid so they deserved to be defrauded? (see above)
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The "KID" was too generous with his example of the graduation rate at an EDMC school. Let's look at the real winners: Fraud South University in West Palm Beach, Fl. with a 17% graduation rate or how about Fraud South University in Tampa, Fl. with a grad rate of 3%. These numbers are laughable and whether you believe them or not they were supplied by EDMC. I'll let you come to your own conclusions about what's going on at these two lovely exemplary fraud loan mills.
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My final comment has to do with the aiders and abettors of The EDMC way. They are known as faculty members. You know at one time I had nothing but respect and admiration for academicians. In my mind you were a cut above the rest. But those days are long gone. Collectively you have broken the "social contract" and much unlike the good physician, through your affiliation with EDMC, you have indeed done lots of harm. You might say everyone has to make a living? Well, if being a duplicitous parasite for EDMC is the best you can do, good luck when the Karma bus arrives. By the way, word has it that it's on its way.
@HGr5klw-3mkf, that's called "the sunken investment theory": now that you've made the terrible mistake in going to a for-profit college instead of a community college, you might as well finish and throw the dice instead of losing all of those credits.......................................https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/college-choice-rational-dahn-shaulis?trk=mp-author-card
You mean getting a degree increases earnings versus dropping out even from a for profit school? That doesn't fit the narrative. Quickly to the "yeah but still" machine.
I'm the idiot leading the blind!
3sgs, you are an idiot
$3500 is quite a bit of video games and pokemon cards for a dedicated artist from AI.
@HGr5klw-3siz, you sound like a sales person or management. (1) What's the graduation rate at EDMC schools? Just picking the New England Institute of Art, their graduation rate is 32-37% (2) You think $3500 a year is good money--how much do the college debts cost per year, and how does someone pay them back?
Did anyone actually read the article? It says that those students who FAILED out of for-profits did poorly. (No surprise there!) It actually says that those students who "completed their degrees" did better. In fact, they made "about $3,500 to $4,000 more per year." I wouldn't mind making $4,000 more per year. What's the problem?
It was fun while it lasted! Easy money from idiots!
Sure, for profit schools are an easy target but let's be real - going to a state University is also incredibly expensive, requires student loans that you may struggle to pay back, and does not guarantee a high paying job. The whole secondary educational system is broken, EDMC schools are just one spoke on the wheel.
lol at the person
Who thinks we want to kill them
No you idiot
Pretty sure there are many lame teachers on here!
If a gun is brought
Security is for naught
People would then die
Security is
Lacking at all campuses
EDMC does not care
I firmly believe
All responses should now be
Written in haiku
From the previous thread it's simple to deduce that there maybe, or is, some long standing, deep seated enmity felt towards Educational Management Corporation and its affiliated schools for whatever myriad of reasons real or imagined there may be. This fact coupled with the ceaseless layoffs disrupting the lives of many thousands of former employees and students down through he years, may, dare I say, have engendered the unintended consequences of people having to work and go to school in an environment that may require enhanced security. I must admit that it pains me to voice these concerns but with the incident yesterday at UCLA, it has occurred to me that what I am saying here needs to be said. Does anyone share my concerns? Do you believe the level of security provided by EDMC is adequate? Do you know of any employees or students come to school with personal protection? Please share your observations and thoughts if you are so inclined.
Oh hey a student can comment here? Let me help out by correcting out @HGr5klw-1pwd's comments to reality.
Ahem,
Scammed SOMETHING. EDMC failed themselves. For-profit or not, these people didn't even provide a minimum requirement. If they wanted to claim that they're a fair school, all they have to do is corporate with the government's investigation. Instead they want to skirt the law and screw themselves because they're functionally not benefiting in society. It must really suck to be involved with them, but not everyone can be heartless, but they're told differently from day 1 of the kool-aid. Everyone just doesn't have much sympathy for people that gets paid anyway from the student's loans or debt they may have. Yeah they can live off these payments, but they also can pay bills, or get a car, or become a dysfunctional member of society. But yeah it's the innocent corporation that got screwed by these "evil" people, not their attitudes of having everything going their way.
What you guys think? I could have also have written in opposite of what he/she said, but I don't want to get an F in common sense. Any comments from honest employees?
Oh and to help ease @HGr5klw-1pwd's conscious I wrote a haiku for him/her to remember
EDMC SUCKS.
You are part of the problem.
I hope you struggle.
Signed,
A functionally, working member in Society
P.S.
Would the lame person posing as an instructor step off please.
@HGr5klw-1zqm oh ok when it's you it's fine. Great role model. If all these a--holes are just a sample of the teachers employed at Ai no wonder the stock's below a nickel and this pathetic excuse for a company is about to die. I will relish the day EDMC files for bankruptcy. It will be this year.
That's my own prerogative. Perks of being a teacher at AI.
@HGr5klw-1riq Yeah man or how about those TEACHERS who came in baked out of their minds? Or sexually assaulted their students