it's true...and no hassle of working the same fake projects and zero budget for 10 years or so...
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AVP’s aren’t worth anywhere near $500k! They’re basically figurehead gatekeepers over their little fiefdoms! On that matter, toxic T is FAR overdue to eliminate (at least) two levels of VP’s. There’s NO legitimate, tangible value of having 3-4+ layers of stuffed suit “VP’s”. 👎🏻
AVP Avg Base = $225K to $250K, 25% Bonus Target = another $60K, Annual Restricted Stock Allocation = $90K to $100K, 401K Matching = another $10+K, eligible to defer up to 30% of Base + Bonus in AT&T stock (to be paid in following year if you like) and receive 20% match = another $60K, plus pension (applies to many), another $20K to $30K on Restricted Shares dividends and deferred, employee discounts = $2K, medical/dental/vision = $18K.
Apples to apples - fully loaded UPS (benefits + salary) is $170k.
AVP fully loaded is closer to $350-$400k
Average total comp package for AVPs is in $400K to $500K -that is a lie.
avps should be making less than a ups driver because the vast majority of them are pretty useless. basically what they are is is the first layer of upper management stupidity. that is, any ibformation that's headed up the chain to the people at the top has to be d-mbed down to the level that an avp can understand it.
Average total comp package for AVPs is in $400K to $500K
That $170k is total compensation , (pay, benefits, 401k match). As a L2 individual I make sore than that for my total comp. I’m sure an AVP is at least $250k
“ Aren’t most managers previous CRAFT employees, and made the choice to “promote” to management?”
No, not at all. We have office buildings with thousands of people in them. Most L2 “managers” are office workers, finance, accountants, programmers, project managers, admin jobs that have never worked in craft. Very few L2’s (probably less than 15%) ever worked in or even near craft. That’s a misconception. They also don’t manage anyone or make decisions. It’s also why all the lame craft downing managers get so thumbed down on this site. Not even in the same ballpark. The closest most L2s have ever gotten to craft is seeing an ATT truck on the road next to them in traffic.
Well they've interviewed a few UPS drivers and while the numbers looking impressive the breakdown of what they actually are is interesting and not anywhere near just the salary.
Ups driver died from heat exhaustion. Brown trucks don’t have AC.
Not now, but that will change since the Teamsters forced UPS's hand on the issue.
Try to keep up.
Become a UPS driver and make more than a AVP.
At least it's honest work.
Let us see the AVP and above say "We make more than that."
Not for much longer. AT&T will not pay you what you "think" you are worth anymore.
"Very rare to hire on full time, you have to start in the warehouse or part time driving positions before you can promote to a full time driver position. It can take years in some instances."
It's similar to hiring on to a railroad. You sign on, taking various entry level jobs and cr-p schedules until you gain enough seniority to bid for better jobs and better schedules. One exception are the tractor trailer drivers. I know two, both had to have a CDL with endorsements, including tandem, as well as significant OTR experience.
Looks like a good deal for UPS drivers. They definitely work for the money, it's good to see them paid. A friend of mine was a UPS driver. He got hit by a car, suffered some brain issues, and is now on a DB pension.
I think the OP has a blurry vision of AT&T manager pay. L2's can make the same as salary + bonus, not including 401(k) and HSA matches, and other benefits. AVP's make significantly more than $170k.
Very rare to hire on full time, you have to start in the warehouse or part time driving positions before you can promote to a full time driver position. It can take years in some instances.
That's great, but how does one actually become a UPS driver? I looked, and all they have are warehouse positions, and some part-time driver jobs, that are not covered by the same union contract I assume, as their salaries are a joke.
I have a feeling you have to know somebody, that knows somebody, to even get close to UPS Full-Time union driver jobs.
I'm a Level 2 individual contributor. I went the management path because I despise the union and it's ancient nonsense. I personally have zero desire to be part of any organized labor union.
Aren’t most managers previous CRAFT employees, and made the choice to “promote” to management?
So why try and unionize now when you were part of a union and made the decision to leave?
These are genuine questions. I’m truly curious as to why managers want to unionize now.
Those new people coming in have to save for their own retirement and won't get a pension. You're like a government employee, traded the higher income for a long term pension.
Neither choice is better or worse than the other, but it's why the income is higher for new employees. It averages out over the long term.
Unions can be good or bad, but maybe it's time to organize and get that contract.
It's not like we have much to lose these days.
Ups driver died from heat exhaustion. Brown trucks don’t have AC.
Union folks can’t wfh. Not even a day.
Let’s do this!
Our manager medical benefits are a joke! The deductible is through the roof!
Why do managers only get 6 months severance when union employees get up to 2 years severance.
Taking away vacation days.
The disparity between the two job titles is unbelievable and has been for years!
"Imho the office L2s need to unionize....."
Unions nowadays do NOTHING for you. The leaders in the union(s) get rich off of employees. It's another way for you to enslave yourselves because you have to do what the union tells you.
Best way is to get another job or start your own business. Working for yourself is not easy but worth it.
Start that union for L2s!!
Imho the office L2s need to unionize. We are getting hosed these days. The existing workers pay is falling way behind, new people coming in make significantly more. Then there’s the offshoring and inshoring that happens, The rebadging schemes, dumping of the laid off workers jobs on ever strained people, the expectation in my team to work 16 hour days with no extra comp or comp time, the poor and abusive treatment and coercion. The forced relocations with no reload assistance or extra compensation. There are a litany of reasons.