Thread regarding Ford layoffs

@2vbb+1lSBjuvO I’m curious, what software company? Hint?

Ford lost its way along time ago. All this bickering over who should be given positions and on what basis loses sight that this is a business and work must get done or it won’t be for long.
Meritocracy is a better choice.
In the 90s I worked for a software company that had “blind” interviews. Your name and personal information was removed from your resume. Your interview was a timed practical coding and problem solving test. You took the test in a room by yourself. It was a challenging test. The people who did the best on test were hired.
It was one of the best working environments I have worked in as everyone was competent. There was a 75-25 split male to female and about a 70-20-10 split white-Asian-other. There was no bickering over who should get a position.

There are people getting promoted at Ford that can’t speak proper English, and no I am not referring to foreign born employees. I blame the US education system for this.

Ford Management DEI objectives have forced many talented folks to jump ship or quiet quit. Worse part is many people having to manage some of these hyper entitled DEI folks that have been promoted because of DEI and now add little value in some very important Engineering Management jobs. Sometimes they are incompetent and don’t know right from wrong because they have so little experience and sometimes they are so DEI entitled they look down upon their co-workers. Product really suffers as well when people don’t support their leader and their management does nothing to remove this Manager even with poor quality results and clear lack of performance- they should be on PEP, but no way will that happen.

How are you all going to react when Ford goes even further with DEI?

I think the other poster is right. There will be a LOT more female and POC employees here at our Ford. GSRs and LLs.

It has already started. And this is only the beginning!

This seems like a passionate discussion with people who have different ideas of what DEI is all about... some people interpret the discussion as hateful and want it shut down.

This thread is titled "DEI Paying Off?"

When people get offended about passionate back and forth on the merits and truthfulness of ideas or policies and want the discussion shut down or deleted....... I will have to say that yes, DEI is paying off in the sense that it is convincing people to see dissent as hatred and try to shut down the discussion. And I am one who believes that DEI is mostly about dividing us.

I hope all of this gets deleted by the mods. This is simply terrible and downright offensive.

It is saddening to know that there are so many of you Ford employees with such hate in your hearts for your fellow Ford colleagues simply because they are different than you.

I suspect that this is why the Company is bringing DEI to the forefront.

@1nte+1lSBjuvO

You kind of answered your own question.

The privilege is for all the white people not ki-led by police. The disproportionate percentage is the lack of privilege. The takeaway is that if a black person and a white person were each going through the exact same experience with law enforcement, there us a statistically significant difference in the amount of times that the plack person is ki-led compared to the white person.

Same can be said for getting jobs. They've done countless studies that show two identical resumes - one with a stereotypically white name and one with a stereotypically black name - white hiring managers are more likely, to a statistically significant degree, to choose the cand8date with the stereotypically white name.

@1egg+1lSBjuvO. All else isn't equal. What is most significant? White people are not a homogeneous group of privileged people. Black people are not a homogeneous group of oppressed people. Applying broad based statistics and calling things systemic means nothing to individuals. For instance, more white people are ki-led by police than black people. This isn't in proportion to the population, of course. This lack of proportionality is used as proof of systemic racism, but these individuals aren't any less dead. What happened to their privilege? DEI experts always teach us that white privilege means not having to have "the talk" with our kids. What happened? It gets a bit tiresome to hear highly privileged people, both white and minority, delivering the DEI line for their political/economic gain.

Ford Motor Company should be equally split between men and women but school teachers who indoctrinate kids in government schools and HR ladies who enforce workplace equity should be almost all women. And ditch diggers and dirty dangerous job wranglers should be almost all men. Funny how that works isn't it?

We need people with open minds and serious reasoning skills to solve complicated problems and we have people who conclude that unequal outcomes for minorities is obviously due to systemic racism... good luck and good night.

Ford Motor should be roughly equally split between male and female employees. At all leadership levels. And the racial makeup should reflect the national statistics - at the very least - and possibly more POCs if the company location is in an area with higher concentrations of specific races.

I look forward to the future for Ford.

Through the years, I have had minority managers and coworkers. In many cases we live in the same neighborhood, our kids go to the same schools, and play on the same sports teams. We get along and have worked together quite well. But occasionally, we have to sit in a DEI training class where I learn how privileged I am and my coworkers are oppressed. Why, my manager would be at least a VP if it weren't for oppression! I am not sure what I am supposed to do after attending these classes, but it is good that I am made aware of my privilege.

@1rvy+1lSBjuvO

Yes, we should pretend that America is a systemically racist country because the powers that be profit mightily from it.

@1dde+1lSBjuvO. Yes, it is best to assume goodness, as you stated. So is it beneficial to have a class that effectively teaches people not to "assume goodness"? Should we teach young people to be offended based on decades old conditions and pretend no progress has been made. We do not need DEI classes that act like it is perpetually the 70s. It is good to strive to achieve, and have the opportunity to do so, but this instructor is teaching the notion that some people are "less than". Is he a solution, or the problem?

Today marks the final day of Women's Hysteria Month.

I know I speak for all of us when I say we are victims of a vast propaganda campaign perpetrated by malign actors to weaken the USA.

Ford does not seem to be that competitive or competent at the present time. And a lot of other companies and banks and the government who are big into DEI don't seem to be doing so great either.

Could it be the DEI?

I'm sure it's easy enough to say that's just what a very very small fraction of people at Ford might think and get back to promoting diversity candidates.

But China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia and some other competitors are pretty happy that the US isn't as competitive as it used to be.

Today marks the final day of Women's History Month.

I know I speak for all of us when I say we are so proud of all of our FoMoCo female colleagues - bio and trans - we stand strong beside you all!

You have all worked so hard to achieve your goals and we all admire and respect your success! FoMoCo is stronger because of you!

Sorry but I'm not drinking the DEI cult koolaid.

You can have a meritocracy or DEI but not both at once.

The negative rhetoric has to be kept in context. The people posting on this forum represent a very very small fraction of Ford. And who can be certain if any of these people are actually current employees at all.

I believe that Ford is sincere with their DEI initiatives. And I do believe that it is a safe space to work and exist regardless of who you are or how you live your life.

Lastly, I do strongly agree that the DEI initiatives have no impact on whether or not a candidate is qualified for a role or not. Only qualified candidates are selected. That's just the way competitive companies have to operate. DEI offers competitive advantage by bringing different perspectives to light.

You people....

This is why we can't have nice things....

I think that the internet is still like the wild west. Anonymity makes people feel comfortable to say outloud (through a keyboard at least) the things that they are too afraid to say in public for fear or consequence.

If anyone saw yesterday's posts in this same conversation thread, you would have seen thinly veiled r@cism. And som not so thinly veiled r@scism.

I believe that DEI is a good thing. I also believe firmly that the DEI people getting selected for roles are 'qualified' for the role.

Making DEI a priority does not decrease opportunity for the majority race/gender/orientation/etc. I think the biggest misconception from the majority groups is that they are being displaced or replaced. Ford is simply making sure diverse groups have seats at the table. All are qualified to be there.

DEI is a side show. The real battle is and always will be between employee classes, the labor class and the management class. Don’t read this and assume I’m advocating for burning down the current system and going with something else that the rest of the world has tried (and failed miserably at), because I’m not saying that at all. For a large company like Ford, the game is about setting the right values, since doing otherwise and changing a complex system too fast (or sometimes at all) can have severe consequences, even with the best intentions. So by setting up the right value structure, the executives’ goal has been to induce behavior change (which is more and more difficult to do as people age due to how the average human brain works, and might be why there is extreme ageism in other industries…) that will shift the company away from “bad habits” let’s say, such as valuing bureaucracies over competent engineering. The problem is that the values are set and reset every time we get a new CEO. Meanwhile, the “bad habits” continue, and the management in the middle ranks continue to twiddle their thumbs waiting for pensions to cash in while they exploit their direct reports who have 401Ks with no consequences.

DEI creates fear and allows executives to shortcut the behavior change cycle by artificially forcing change to happen in the name of a new “moral superiority” that they have manufactured for this purpose. It’s nefarious and anti-human, but can be effective.

I touched on several things here. Very interested to hear what you all think.

@1qdw+1lSBjuvO

FWIW, this is not just a thing at Ford, but everywhere in Corporate America.

It all goes back to how the hierarchy has traditionally been structuted in these companies. Those who have the most decision-making authority and make the most money are held in the highest regard (hourly plant workers tend to make the least amount of money and have very little decision-making authority).

I agree that it's a flawed and outdated way of thinking, but it's still reality for a lot of people.

I think this demonstrates what is fundamentally wrong with the company. Why is working at a plant viewed as a lesser role in the company? Black, white, brown, etc. work at the plants. Maybe that’s why our launches, quality, and productivity suck. Our production numbers continue to drop and we continue to bleed cash with recalls. I love the plants, it’s the last place where you can’t bullsh-t your way out of a problem because the results are experienced almost instantly in retrospect to the time loop at Ford. Not like all these do nothing positions in Model E where they bullsh-t their way through and don’t own it when it launches.

Here is the problem I see. The DEI implementation is a repeat of the Ford mass gender promotion campaign 20+ years ago.

At one point in time if there was female engineer in a leadership position it was because she had earned the spot with her abilities and was well respected by all. Then there was a mass promotion event where practically overnight tons of females were promoted to leadership positions based upon time served formula derived by HR not merit or ability. This pi---d off nearly everyone, but especially the female engineers who had earned their leadership position via merit, as now everyone assumed they were incapable instead of respecting them, all their hard work was erased with the HR action.

Curiously this same pattern repeats with every “disadvantaged” group at Ford. And curiously Ford consistently excludes the most talented in the promotions. It is almost like they want the company to fail.

Black person here. I can provide a bit more context in defense of this leader's comments.

In the past, it was pretty common for African-Americans to be subjected to less-prestiguous jobs within the company than their white counterparts, simply because of the color of their skin. So to a black person when they hear someone ask them which plant they work at, their perception of that question is the person who's asking believes they're some low-level janitor or assembly line worker. Understandably, for a black person that have successfully moved up the ranks into a leadership role within the company (the politics behind how they did so notwithstanding), this can be perceived as insulting. And he's most certainly entitled to this feeling.

That being said, I also tend to agree with the sentiment expressed in this thread. Context is always just as important. Even for me, although I work in a salaried role, I still have a hard time explaining to my own family (who comes from a blue collar background) how my job is different from that in the plant. So IMO, it's best to "Assume Goodness" (see what I see there?), or more specifically ignorance, when people ask these types of questions until they prove otherwise.

The problem with DEI is that it is teaching people to look at a person’s skin color, s-x, se-ual orientation, etc. before every considering the content of their character or skills. If you look up discrimination in the dictionary “the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, s-x, or disability” you will see that the DEI is designed to promote discrimination and separate people. It is working to divide Ford and our society. As long as Ford prioritizes hiring and promoting the BEST DEI candidate and not the most qualified the Company will continue to fail. Based on what I see from our leadership I believe Ford is too far gone to recover. I need three more years to reach 55 and cash out my pension. So very sad.

Who cares if this guy suffers the indignity of being asked what plant he works in. He is compensated plenty to whine about these great indignities to an audience that isn't compensated as well. I have been asked what plant I work in. I have friends and neighbors that work in plants. Am I supposed to be offended to be associated with them? This is all DEI creates - useless overpaid arrogent managers who think they should be in even higher positions reaching for instances of discrimination. If this stupid story is what they come up with, then obviously their DEI class isn't needed.

I got ask what plant I worked more often than not. I would just answer “Product Development “… sometimes they would ask which dealership….I’m retired now and have to explain that too…lol.

som+1lSBjuvO

I work in component validation engineering, we test parts that go on all vehicles. I get asked the same thing, "which plant do work at" ? Engineering is an invisible field to most non tech people. People think that there only about 5 or 6 engineers for a whole vehicle, and ALL of the development takes place over a few months.

I'm white. I never get asked what plant I work at. Everyone assumes I'm a 'suit'.

Can confirm. I'm white and get asked all the time "oh you work at 'Fords'! Which plant?"

It isn't a race thing