Rumour mill to confirmed that managers M2/M3 are being asked to drop to IC level. Rumor from my M5 level buddy is that the plan is to PIP these folks quickly and work them out without severance. The belief is that most won't be able to show value as IC4/5 if they have been managers for a few years quickly. Saves the company a boatload on severance costs. Also a downgrade might help a few quit themselves again saving seperation costs. The later is already happening in some offices.
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@wy not sure maybe your bad luck, my manager as a human is very good - like an old smart grandpa at work. Treats us all as kids, grandkids (new grad hires) in a good way.
@wy Your direct manager many times has no input - they are just messengers. Note many times high performers are target to make sure the algorithm gets all races, religions, ages to ensure org can't be sued for targeted discrimination. My own manager was devastated that members on our team were gone - he said even on stack rankings they were high - so there are other factors. My manager is old and he had hinted he would volunteer if needed for other employees but they kept him on.
Managers laying(getting rid off) of ICs to safe their fat useless butts and then pretending to help with future job hunting.
FU-K YOU
@a5 They just cant spell oracle properly. Still dwelling on export/import legacy technologies.
@dm Oracle salary ranges for each position are so wide that are practically meaningless, but M3 and IC5 have roughly the same salary range. To be honest it would be easier for Oracle to leave you as M3 with no reports, and then the algorithm would mark your position as unnecessary
I was asked this - work in dev as M3 asked to switch to IC and dunno what difference that makes to me tbh. If I get pushed is same being M3 as IC4/5? RIF based on salary not grade?
Are they still going to require you to live in your field sales territory ?
That's a bigger cost cutter.
Would assume that happens early May and before Manager rotation.
OP, how many people are they planning on impacting with this?
This seems like a lot of effort and an excessive amount of risk just to save the severance. The managers don't have a requirement to keep their technical skills at the IC4/5 level. Dumping these people into jobs that they aren't qualified to fill just so you can fire them for low performance is a law suit waiting to happen and one that Oracle would lose. If the management roles become redundant they should be laid off and paid severance. If this is true and Oracle is willing to make these risky moves the financials must be far worse than expected.
Employers on PIPs get severance in Canada. Also if you change employment contract for an employer it’s called constructive dismissal in Canada and it’s never good for the employer…
@ac Not in the US.
I have no idea if this is true or not but it would make sense to manage people out without having to pay. Oracle is cheap, worst severance in the tech sector. As some comments mention, many of the M level are rusty to be polite and useless to be crude on their actual technical skills. There is a movement to giving ICs more autonomy and impact to accelerate and reduce management chain who are now suddenly seen as a hindrance. Though I dred having to deal with some of the M5 folks directly. My M2 is reasonable, M5 is out of touch and has zero idea of daily activities and work and has drunk the koolaid that AI can do anything and everything perfectly. M5 openly says we should do more with less after layoffs and thinks we still have room to cut ICs
I can tell you right away this is illegal in Canada.
@ad you are first in the list
This does not make any sense.
Oracle only pays out 4 weeks of severance in the US. The total cost to the business to demote employees, build PIPs, and manage them out is higher than 4 weeks or severance. It would be FAR more efficient to just lay them off than to jump through all those hoops to barely save any money.
But yes, if you had 2 managers, managing 8 ICs each, and they each lost half their team. You’d now have 2 managers with 8 ICs. So I would expect 1 of the 2 managers gets laid off or demoted to IC. That’s just common sense.
No need to formally make them IC. They are just left as.managers with no direct reports and the pruning algorithm does the rest.
I don’t buy this one as employees on PIP have always gotten a severance. When you look at the scale of oracle there isn’t enough people that they could put in this bucket to significantly move the scale.
@OP Team and location ?
Most of the M2-M5 are not even close to being IC2.
Brutal, but I can recommend several useless M2-5s for the list!