Current GSR8, earning ~120k base salary, and a somewhat easy workload. I have a half offer for a promotion to an LL6 position. Is it a good idea to accept it? I'm thinking in terms of dollars earned per hour worked, I might be earning less than what I currently do. Are the benefits for an LL6 position worth? How much can I expect to earn (the salary range is from 101k to 190k)
31 replies (most recent on top)
If you like what you’re doing as a GSR consider yourself lucky and stay there. The grass always looks greener on the other side.
@2zuz+1fOO04ZI a nickname getting loose...that's a howler. I've heard stories of that happening too. FCG! Yes!
The pay bump from GSR8 to LL6 is typically 10%. The lease car isn't that great of a deal, at least at that level. You will likely end up taking a pay cut in relation to the hours worked overall.
@2ctu+1fOO04ZI
HR people, probably. IT spies, most definitely and if you're on your work computer, they know that you visit here. It's not rocket science to track where someone has been. I have first hand knowledge of that.
Does Ford human resources even look at some of the posts here and think, "wow, we should do something about what's going on here" ?
What do they even work on besides political agenda topics?
In today’s Ford there is no upside for an ethical decent human being to take the leadership path.
In the 50s-90s there were still a good percentage of leaders who were in it for the right reason and had a working moral compass, skills and knowledge, and a backbone.
Now true leaders are definitely in the minority and are culled in layoffs.
The Teflon coated con-artists are large and in charge. Virtue signaling is more important than accomplishments.
It is an open secret, it is so bad that the LL6s are all referred to openly by their nicknames. An FGC didn’t know any better and called one by his nickname in a department meeting, that was not pleasant. our LL6: McConArtist, Teflon, PooMan, VannaWhite, Baggage, Righto, Buckling and Bulling. Our LL5: Vacuum.
Absolutely don't do it for the lease car. If you are slippery enough, have very low ethics, are a grade A bull ship artist, and are a scammer....you can be a GSR8 AND have a free company car everyday of every week and every weekend with free gas, unlimited miles, and free insurance. It's called a company m-plate. And HR, management, and vehicle control doesn't even care!
Thats my recommendation. We have a person in our department who gets this vehicle deal, and has had it for years and years. No wonder they haven't pushed to become a LL6.
No.. don't do it. The lousy lease car deal is not worth it. LL6's take the responsibility, stress and blame for everything. I wish I had listened to myself years ago and stayed a GSR8. I know plenty of people who retired as GSR's and they were much happier.
The interview is an absurd notion of fairness when it comes down to internal promotions. If a manager wants to promote someone that they have a history of working with and trust, why wouldn't that take precedent over how well someone has been coached for some bs interview?
Half offer? Sounds like a brown noser to me since you are being offered a job ahead of time without interviewing.
it is a common sense that employees with LL6 or higher position should be involved in development of some kind of innovative ideas, creative thoughts which might help company in the long run. I used to work in other companies. I noticed those in employees with LL6/managers positions in those companies.
But I saw most of the LL6/managers here in ford are involved in some kind of regular day to day clerical stuffs. They are mostly dependent on supplier. Even for a simple issue, they call supplier person rather than employees under them. This is sad and tragic. This is mere wastage for resources.
With the lack of automation in project management and system processing, these LL6/managers spend most of the time in manual activities which ki-l their talents.
It seems to me almost all of LL6/manager even GSRs are 'god of small things' in ford.
This should come to an end if ford want to be competitive in coming days of fierce competition in automotive market.
So be careful before taking any LL6 position.
No. You are stuck with all the responsibility for everything and no way to correct or implement. Stay a GSR.
Stay a GSR8. You'll be able to focus on your assignments and perform at high level. Being a TA GSR 8 is as financially rewarding as being an LL6. Plus less LL6s mean fewer TAs allotted. The management lease benefit has become a joke with the chip shortage.
I wish I had followed my gut to stay a GSR8.
Don't do it. Just puts you in the forced-ranking system with more vicious people.
Ahhh, the age old question. I decided that free time/family were more important than the LL6. When I hit 30 years, I did interview for an LL6 position as kids were done with college, etc. My chief engineer thought I was nuts and said to enjoy my remaining years as an 8.
My LL6 interview was as stated below - young female who was selected was predetermined. After 30 years of perfect experience for the job - you would not believe all of the psychology based questions that were asked.
An old quote - "decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it, establish your priorities and go to work".
Everything has a cost - watch out for the success prison of escalating promotions resulting in declining family relations!!!
Not sure how many years at Ford you have , but I am a Grade 8 engineer with just over 30 years in the company and making $130,000..
Personally , I remained a free agent GSR and did not want to be locked into the same department and don’t regret the different positions I’ve held. I’ve also watched numerous coworkers who became LL6 leaders and over the years their health declined and they wished they had never locked themselves into working in one department for their remaining work years. Given the state of the company right now and the pending layoffs , the need for LL6 positions will go down as well.
Several LL6 in my department were given no choice but to get another job they didn’t want to do to remain in the department.
I’ve never regretted remaining a minion while watching LL6 being shuffled around all these years.
Don’t become a LL6 for the money and a lease car. You do it because you want to be a good leader, not just a manager. You do it because you want to support a team, want to help make decisions to improve your operations and department, want to make a difference for your team, want to develop people, and want to buffer the BS from LL5 and above.. It is not always easy. You will put in a lot of casual time and get no overtime pay any longer but with the right attitude and reasons just mention it is worth the journey if you approach it the right way. The issue I see with Ford is there are too many managers and not enough leaders. The selection process needs to be fair but do it for the right reasons. There are times you need to stand up to your superiors and let them know they are wrong which is not always easy. Don’t just be a “yes man”. I am basing this on my previous experience of being a LL6 and LL5 for 20 years. I am now retired and had a lot of good times and had some bad times (work load, putting in a lot of hours, having to lay good people off, etc.) but based on the great teammates I got to work despite having to work for some cr---y LLs it was definitely worth it. Good luck.
Only 120? You can get much higher staying at GSR 8 without the stress of LL6. Who cares about the lease vehicle? You can’t even get them now…all cars are going to paying customers….
Very few LL6+ promotions are fair.
Thinking back over 25 years.
A- 50% of the LL+ promotions were promotions without an interview.
B - 40% of the LL+ promotions - interviews were held with a pre-determined outcome
C - 10% of the LL+ promotions - interviews were held, with a heavy thumb on the scale (desired candidate given the interview questions ahead of time and multiple practice interviews were held to coach the desired candidate)
My first promotion fell into category A. One day I was invited to a meeting and told I was now an LL6. I really didn’t even want it as I knew it was going to be a rough job.
My second promotion fell into category B. I was told I would be promoted, I was later sent an interview meeting notice. The “interview” was a pleasant chat with three LL5, nothing taxing.
Now for the OP question, is it worth it?
Being an LL5 - Heck No. So much artificial stress rolls downward, you are tethered to your phone and laptop 24x7. You constantly have to have your shields up. Not only do you have the person above you kicking downward, you have the lateral kicking and stabbing from your peers and you also have the “upwardly mobile” trying to pull you down and climb over you. Seriously 80% of your time is spent on non-value add tasks.
Being an LL6 - Ask yourself what is your end game? Is it to move upwards? If so see previous paragraph. Is it money? If so then, no, it is fleeting, better to focus on improving your skills and leave Ford. Once you are an LL6 and your family gets accustomed to the $, you are stuck. Other companies will not hire you, so Ford has you by the short hairs. You will become what you previously despised. The longer you stay at Ford, the harder it will be to look at the man in the mirror. Everyone I know said, I will be different but in the end they were not. Very easy to fool yourself.
Yes, it is unfair because Ford process states that people are supposed to be interviewed for LL6 positions and then whoever gets the highest score out of the interview, is selected for the position. It is a known fact that people are selected ahead of time, many times, unfairly, even before interviews have taken place. The interviewers can collude to make others have lower scores after the interviews even if they answer the questions perfectly. So yes, in the essence of equal opportunity, it is unfair what you’re doing. “Half of an offer”, isn’t an offer. Interviewing for a position or being “told you have potential” isn’t half of an offer. I have a feeling you are being told a little bit more than what you are alluding to by the hiring manager hence the half of an offer comment. Why would you be asking questions about salary and all that, if there wasn’t more to it with your discussions with the hiring manager? There are typically at least six people interviewed for LL6, so if you don’t already have some sort of indication you’re going to get the position, you are severely counting chickens before they hatch
What’s the raise percentage you get from going from SGR8 to LL6? Does it max out at 6% like promotion from GSR7 to 8?
I have half an offer, because like I said in my last post, this manager has encouraged/coached/mentored me in the past and indicated their views on my potential. Like I said before, this does not guarantee me anything, but is at the very least, a positive sign. If I apply, I may be laughed out of the room, that is certainly a possibility, but there's also a decent chance that I will be seriously considered for the job. Hence me phrasing it as having half an offer.
I did not say that candidate B should not be interviewed. What I said before was that candidate B should be seriously considered (this includes interviewing them) and given a fair shot. If candidate A is someone the hiring manager knows from before, and has worked with in the past for multiple years, while candidate B is an external hire, with completely equal skills/quals, it would indeed be a more pragmatic decision to rate A higher. I didn't disagree that this cannot be considered unfair.
Let's say I want to get my lawn mowed. I scope out two companies, A and B, both offer exactly the same services at the same prices and have equally good online reviews. I chat with my next door neighbor, and they recommend service A because they've used it in the past. Guess which service I'm hiring? Is that unfair?
This is my last post on this topic. The best of luck to you, and I sincerely hope you get everything you desire.
You said yourself “you have half an offer”
If you haven’t been talking about the position, how do you have “half an offer”???
Everything you say is contradictory. Nice try though.
“One could also argue that its more pragmatic and/or efficient.” Really????? So without even interviewing, the manager should already have picked the winner cause it’s more pragmatic? Technically, this goes against Ford policy and I’m just saying, you are proof the process is unfair. Everyone is supposed to have a chance by interviewing, but you yourself just admitted what we all knew. Thanks
To coq+1fOO04ZI
I am not having conversations with the hiring manager about the position. I know the position is going to be created because I can see the writing on the wall in that department and know what the team needs are heading into the next couple of years. I have been encouraged by this hiring manager in the past to not be afraid of putting myself out there and applying for new positions, because they are a good manager and seem to care about the personal progress of engineers. They do not know that I am thinking about applying. While not explicitly stated between us, I consider this manager as a mentor. The fact that a position may open up under this manager is a coincidence.
If you are a hiring manager, a great risk is hiring the wrong person for the job. If you know a person/engineer and have a good grasp of both their technical and interpersonal skills, you can make a good estimate of how they will do in a new role.
As an example, candidate A and candidate B may have the exact same skills and qualifications, but if the hiring manager knows candidate A and not candidate B, they would be smart to hire candidate A since the odds of A working out is better than the odds of B. This does not mean that B would not be able to do a good job, nor that B should not be seriously considered for the position. It just means that there is more confidence in A. The hiring manager does not want to have re-fill the position in a couple of years if the person they hired does not work out.
One can certainly argue that its unfair. One could also argue that its more pragmatic and/or efficient.
What is grade 69? (easy on the jokes)
First, I have seen opening got "stolen" by upper management. A less qualified candidate got the offer because of the other candidate is part of friend and family. So, the hiring manager can be powerless sometime or he/she may need the credit of being helpful.
If you are young and ambitious, follow your heart and go for the opportunity. If you are no longer young, grade 69 is a way better position, i.e., similar pay as 6, no responsibility and never specifically targeted in HC task. Good luck.
Well there’s proof of all of our suspicions all along, that this LL6 promotion process isn’t fair. Why are you having discussions with the hiring manager even before the position is posted about it and saying you have “half an offer”? You should have zero offer at this point if interviews haven’t even taken place yet. Seems shady to me and very typical of how this unfair process works at Ford.
Half offer means I know there's going to be an opening soon, and I've worked a lot with the hiring manager. This does not mean at all that I am even close to being guaranteed the position, but knowing the team/department and having the necessary experience/qualifications means it wouldn't be a stretch for me to get an offer if I applied
At Ford, this varies widely. Very widely. I see and seen LL6s work their tails off and make the same as or even less than established GSR8s. Some of those established GSR8s are a valuable resource and earn that salary while others, those from the friends and family contingent, well for them you might as well throw that $140K out the window because it would save the company not only in salary but also in cost avoidance for the lousy job they do and recalls they cause.
Now on the other hand, I know first hand LL6s that do absolutely nothing but get 5 figure bonuses all the time, lease car, 150k and make their subordinates or suppliers do all the work.
What I'm saying is, at Ford it is a totally mixed bag when it comes to this subject.
How do you have a “half offer”?? All LL6 positions are supposed to be posted on JOL and interviewed for.
After being promoted to an LL6 I felt like I’d taken a pay cut. Sure you get a raise and management lease vehicles but the salary increase doesn’t compensate for the significant increase in hours worked. This could vary by position. I’ve known GSRs who worked 60 hours a week and LL6s who were slackers so, depending on the position, your experience could be different. The other consideration is that the LL6 level always seems to take the brunt of head count reductions for some reason.