If all the things I’ve been reading here are true, why would anyone in their right mind want to stay? For those who will get laid off, I say, “ Congratulations! “
36 replies (most recent on top)
I'm free to leave, when they fire me, give me a date, and I'll take my personnel file thank you very much.
You know what I find interesting? GM, Ford, and Stellantis are CRAVING, struggling, and inviting new hires, both engineers and designers today at a level of panic I've never seen before in 30 years. Simply to interview. The level of desperation is disgusting.
With "We're Hiring" signs on every business the country over, how likely do you think they'll find talent? I can tell you first hand in automotive tier one, we are two dozen engineers down, and 35 designers down JUST within our commodity.
Let them bring their threats. I'm happy to sit out for years or decades. I have the money. Do they have the expertise, or people with a regular pulse, able to complete the work?
I'll call the bluff. It's only AV or EV on the line.
Damn straight! Nobody is forced to work there. Nobody needs the "reward" of getting canned in order to go elsewhere. You are free to leave at anytime.
What a d-mb topic. How could it be thought of as a reward? If you think there is something positive about losing your job, you are clearly unhappy and should look for another job or retire.
As the poster below stated, and to add...
Why do you think every single corporation the world over is hiring, especially in the automotive field. Desperation due to lack of talent, and healthy people with a pulse.
Make them pay through the nose for it.
They could be a**holes if they wanted to tie it to to merit increase or bonuses sure, but at the end of the day that's not really the beef. That's just icing on the cake.
It's not like anyone's going broke by missing out on either, therefore it would be an empty threat, if the real evil purpose was to think that'll get them to roll up their sleeves. Many of us are just buying our time, well situated ahead of the official put up or shut up date. For many people, these corporations have nothing to do with all that power. Nothing to hurt people with. Nothing to bribe them with. Nothing to threaten them with.
That's the superiority. Not beholden to their paychecks to survive.
@4bzn+1e2HdNNM - I think you're timing is off, those folks that are financially motivated already have heard the message and acted on it. And anyone that was really financially motivated would already be working on leaving this slowly sinking ship since we all see it's headed for Davy Jones Locker sooner rather than later.
I'm surprised that Ford hasn't announced that salaried merit increases will only be paid to employees who are vaccinated. I suspect that a large percentage of folks who are opposed to the jab would roll up their sleeves if dollars and cents were involved.
It’s easy to feel morally superior when the opposition doesn’t have any to compete with.
Fake news. You wish.
Hospitals and funeral homes would disagree. You unvaxed nuts make up the majority of their patients/corpses.
Not only morally superior but physically as well.
Good possibility they're financially superior as well. I mean, could you imagine having enough wealth to sit out years or decades, to have nothing hanging over your head? Not needing to wh**e around for that next paycheck, playing yes man because you "have" to.
Actually they kind of are. Suck it up buttercup.
Spare us you holier than thou sh-t. You are not morally superior for refusing vaccination.
Not sure what kind of information bubble you live in, but there are a lot of people who disagree with this mandate, including many that chose to get the vax.
It’s going to be really easy to explain to future employers. And being denied a job because we refused the mandate is a great way to weed out companies we don’t want to work for. Why would we be worried about a potential future employer refusing to hire us if we’re willing to lose our current jobs over this?
We’re putting action behind our belief. I won’t take the vax just because my employer is threatening me. I’ll stand by my morals and principles. I wonder, since you think it’s foolish not to submit for this vax, what would you refuse to do if your job was on the line? What else would you let them do to you or others before you said no? What other beliefs do you think people would be stupid for not betraying in order to keep their job?
You will all e happy to know Ford has several global events planned for World AIDS Day December 1, including a discussion with our own version of Dr Fauci.
December 2 a seminar on “ how to form a seasonal bucket list of fun activities to make the everyday special”.
Glad to see they have their priorities right.
When the omicron hysteria takes hold , get a new vaccine because there isn’t time to check the effectiveness of the old one or the boosters. All mandated by your employer.
And on and on …have fun being a pincushion
Have fun !
If you're still going to refuse the vaccination, leave the company before you are let go. That event will be hard to explain in an interview. Or do the smart thing and get vaccinated. This virus ain't going away!
The day SRD was finished we had a group meeting and were told what was expected of us and who was going where.
Some reassignments have already taken place , and I expect a similar group talk will be done in January or February. I won’t be there to hear it but I have no hard feelings towards those who will be staying. A few rabble rousers posting here every now and then aren’t typical of the people I worked with.
I’ve been at Ford for a long , long time. They have been slowed down more than once but they always move ahead.
I say this as someone who fully expects to be terminated, but I am in a position where I don’t have to worry about it. And I certainly won’t worry about them not being able to replace me. It may be a bit of a rough start for them , but they will get by.
I say all vaccinated salaried employees should get a holiday bonus. With all the upcoming 30-day unpaid leaves, why not do something good with all the payroll money that is going to be saved?
Thank you , @uau+1e2HdNNM
They are quite lengthy and you need to put multiple section of the Code and the Regulations together. Code is at eeoc.gov and regarding are at eCFR.gov......And yes but now I am in another area. I have no direct connection to the COVID requirement but I have been part of Corp actions before.
Then Ford should update their guidelines to say “ EEOC regulation XXXX.XX allows us to declare almost all of our salaried employees federal contractors” instead of “Regardless, Ford has made the decision to require vaccination for almost all of our salaried employees, regardless of whether they are covered under the federal contractor requirements.”
Other than at at-will status I’d also like to see the regulation cited.
Are either of you a Ford attorney or work in HR by any chance?
Please cite some EEOC regulations supporting that claim. I’m not saying they do not exist. I take it you have seen them else you wouldn’t have made the statement.
You need to read EEOC regulations to understand why plants, parts depots, and FMCC can be carved out while salaried employees who are not directly connected to government contracts or work remotely can be included. Ford has a ton of wiggle room. You may not agree with OGC's interpretation but Ford attorneys did not just fall off the apple cart.
Nobody with the proper decision making authority said full time remote work is permanent.
I had the vaccination for my own personal reasons. But two things stick out to me regarding this topic.
- We were told numerous times by senior management that working from home was permanent. If that is the case then why do we need to be vaccinated? Now we were told when this HYBRID WFH plan came out that we needed to come in so we can have an idea generating session. That is BS. Since Ford brought in WEBX you no longer sit in a meeting room, in fact you see people who sit right next to each other are all in the same webx meeting. This is an example of middle management trying to justify their jobs. Again, I call that out as BS. A New York Lawyer will tear them up in court for that one. Yes, there are those who have to support a build. But in the past some activities used FCGs to do that. Again, the BS meter is off the chart. You also have certain test activities or calibration areas that need onsite people.
The second factor a lawyer will ask. Why were the salaried workers singled out and not the Hourly? The hourly build those so-called government program vehicles! Again, discrimination written all over it.
Simple fact I spoke with a lawyer friend on it and a good attorney will call in random employees to see how they handled human interaction before COVID. You can bet Ford will lose.
Are any of you going to refuse to work around hourly employees? Are you going to demand they tell you their vaccination status before you go near them ? Or is everyone wearing a mask good enough now as long as you are vaccinated ?
And Bill will know he can do anything he wants to some of the fools who are still there.
First people are assuming the mandate will be upheld as legal - I would not bet on that. If they are not held up as legal, all the lawyers in the world will not help Ford.
Second, there are a lot more people out there within Ford that haven’t got the vax yet and submitted accommodations- coworker that submitted for accommodation got an email that basically said they don’t have to do anything even if Ford did not get around to reviewing her accommodation form after 1/4/22. Ford likely got thousands of forms, not hundreds.
Could Ford move on if they got rid of all these people? Of course they can - but will cause a lot of issues if the numbers are in thousands not hundreds. Plus depends on what areas - what if the majority are in the high tech areas they are counting on for the Ford + ?
reinvention?
My guess Ford is doing what they do best - play the waiting game to see what comes next. I doubt they will get rid of anyone for not getting the vax while the legality is up in the air. However, they can still claim your job is redundant and involuntary people by end of 2nd qtr, which we all know they are going to do, anyway.
Post ID: @yii+1e2HdNNM
Finally, a voice of reason out there. Everyone thinks that they are irreplaceable at Ford, especially the ones that whine the most and I have observed that first hand. And for those that think they will be just fine living off their 401k, they are in for a rude awakening. You may have put the money in tax free, but will pay up upon withdrawal. Not 59 1/2, ooops, it's the 10% penalty for you on top of that. Planning on a hardship withdrawal? Better check the IRS rules for that. Good luck...
It is termination for cause. No unemployment.
After reading the posts, there seems to be a belief that Ford will cave due to employee complaints, will not terminate "valuable" people, or hasn't considered brain drain or lawsuits. If you have worked for Ford for a long time, you know none of this is true. Everyone who does not comply by getting vaxed or receiving an exemption will be terminated after the 30 day unpaid leave.
If you are retirement eligible and are ok with leaving, best wishes to you. If you will need another job, any future employer who does a background check will know be told by Ford you are "not eligible for rehire". Don't depend on a lawsuit. So far, employers have been winning and Ford has an army of lawyers that will tie you up in court for years.
After you are gone, you work will be absorbed. Ford will move on. Your former coworkers won't think you are some kind of hero for taking a stand. They will think you are a fool.
I should clarify. If Ford ends your employment due to not being vaxed, it won’t be a layoff, it will be a termination with cause I think? So no unemployment? So better to leave before you you are terminated.
Someone who has lost a job here has not lost much at all.