I am curious, in lieu of the latest 787 delivery delays and low delivery/orders, is there a chance for more layoffs or outsourcing? Boeing has gotten into problems because of outsourcing and corrupt management. Nothing really has changed - the same management is still around. Many people who new what to do were laid off, the wages at Boeing are stagnant. College grades and level 3s do most of the work now. Just curious where is it going to go... 787 is the latest example of incompetence...
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You can't outsource talent or experience. When hard things need to be fixed and most of the old school know how have retired, left, or is laid off the problem becomes a talisman for incompetent leadership.
Airlines needing that tube with wings to grow with ruthless competition might cancel orders.
So Boeing maki g flying tubes to a Walmart model of outsouced labor, thin margins, and management that can't lead through hard problems is foolish.
https://airinsight.com/nose-issues-787-drive-up-spirits-forward-losses/
Aug 4, 2021
Tier 1 supplier Spirit AeroSystems has been hit hard by the latest quality issues
on the Boeing 787.
After recognizing a $46 million forward loss on the Dreamliner in Q2, the company
expects to incur another $40-60 million loss in Q3, it announced on August 4.
Nose issues on 787 drive up Spirit’s forward losses.
Spirit is a supplier of Section 41, the nose section of the 787.
CEO Tom Gentile confirmed earlier that the company had identified ‘fit and finishing’
issues on the nose barrels, similar to those found on the aft fuselage sections
produced by Boeing itself.
These issues included incorrect shims and a skin flatness issue.
In July, another problem was found on the forward pressure bulkhead,
with gaps of 0.005 inches between the pressure bulkhead and the nose section.
“As a result of our ongoing engagement with Boeing on the 787 program,
we identified an additional issue in the forward section of the fuselage”,
Gentile is quoted in the Q2 results release.
“We continue to coordinate with Boeing to ensure that we are performing all
necessary rework. Primarily driven by this issue, we have recognized a $46 million
forward loss on the 787 program in this quarter.”
Boeing is working closely with the FAA on solving the problem.
During the July 28 results webcast, CEO L. David Calhoun said he hoped that any
rework on 787 that is already in service can be done during regular maintenance.
It is up to the FAA to decide on the extent of the rework that potentially could
Include taking out the entire cockpit to fix the pressure bulkhead deficiency.
This would severely hurt 787 operators and further delay
The Deliveries of Stored Aircraft, which have been paused again since May.
07/29/2021 — 787s to be modified do to shady work:
Boeing CEO Dave L. Calhoun told investors Wednesday during the
company’s second-quarter earnings call that any decision related to
a requirement for in-service 787s to be modified—
after a manufacturing flaw was recently discovered on some undelivered
Dreamliners—will be left up to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2021/07/29/boeing-awaits-faa-decision-requirements-service-787s/
Clowns & Monkeys
That’s because upper management and executives don’t care about engineering concepts or loads. All they care about is that lower level employees, who know about engineering, produce a flyable airplane at the lowest possible cost.
4dzo+1b6R3vbp,
Similar story in our stress team as well.
Same thing happened in our group. Work in a Structures group. New Manager came in to take over group. First thing noticeable was that group morale went straight into the toilet and flushed down due to nobody trusting what ever came out of manager's mouth. Manager never been a manager before but has been at Boeing a while but not a ounce of Structures experience. Manager's old job was to punch in production codes into a computer all day. How does typing production codes into a computer all day makes you qualified to lead a Structures group is beyond reasoning. Lots of people in the group are frustrated dealing with this manager. You have to spend so much wasted time dumping things down to the middle school level for this manager to understand anything related to engineering and most times she still doesn't have a clue what you are talking about. Try explaining the concept of a simply supported beam to this manager in order to find reaction loads at the beam ends for a single upward or downward load at the center of the beam, This whole concept flies right over the manager's head.
So Boeing, why do you repeatedly name incompetent people to lead highly technical engineering groups?
If Boeing keeps repeating things like this, they are going to find out they have became a Has-Been in the Aerospace industry.
It’s good that Boeing employees have a forum like this to complain but come on, you guys know how things roll in the company. They don’t give a damn about engineering experience or judgement, they are more worried about the value of their stocks and short term bonuses. They need first line managers and senior managers to play their game to allow these short term gains even if that means outsourcing work to Russia, India and the supply chain at the expense of losing experienced people. They have become a program management company, engineering experience won’t get you far.
But I bet he is funny, speaks well and with confidence, and does not miss the happy hour (the one that other managers attend). That's how you move up these days.
I work for one of the 30 somthing Boeing managers. The person came to Boeing straight from college. Spent 7 months as a Design engineer and than became another Boeing useless manager. In the person's short life as a Design Engineer, their CATIA skills were weak; beginner at best and other more experienced engineers had to take over the person's one and only design to complete it. Now as a Knucklehead Boeing manager, they think they are a Know It All. In reality the Boeing manager is useless to the entire group and all they really do is surf the web and sign our ETS each week.
Once again, Boeing is making a huge mistake naming Skid Marks as Managers or Leads over more experienced people. This will turn out to be very costly for Boeing.
Some airlines refuse any 787 built in South Carolina....
Boeing engineering management is made up of over eager 30 somthings that have no clue what the experienced workforce is capable of.
Boeing management believes that an engineer with 40 years of experience can be replaced with an engineer with less than 10 with no loss in expertise or innovation.
They are going to be disappointed with the fruits of their decision
Boeing management is a one trick pony. Their strategy to almost every problem is layoffs.
It only is effective for them because there is no large commercial aircraft company in the United States to hire their laid off workers and compete against them.
How they plan to design a new airplane in a couple years when the airline industry bounces back with the reduced workforce which is never coming back I don’t know. They claim with automation they only need a few hundred engineers to do it but it seems doubtful.
Most of the laid off employees have either permanently retired or switched industries. It’s not like the old days when there was a large defense industry they could move to. The defense industry is also shrinking.
Boeing is in serious trouble. I doubt the management there has any inkling though.
I don’t think they ever recover the market share they once had and they will always be second fiddle to airbus now.
Furthermore the innovation in the defense industry which they then incorporated into commercial aircraft is much more splintered and the scope reduced. Not many employees move from defense to commercial and bring in those ideas and technology innovation with them. Boeing will have to innovate themselves and with their almost nonexistent research and development budget now it doesn’t seem likely.
Who cares they moved to South Carolina anyway let’s just hope they don’t fall out of the sky.
Essentially if Boeing can perceive itself to benefit by laying off or outsourcing it will do so. Historically Boeing tends to over hire and then over fire. The difference this time is that a large percentage of the knowledge base is gone. Nobody is irreplaceable but this is as close as it gets.