Do you know of any individual contributor been granted a KERP award?
The only individuals I could think of is engineering?
27 replies (most recent on top)
In response to “The companies owning them are very sophisticated. If they didn't think they'd get back at least the value reflected in those prices above, they'd sell them today.
Windstream won't be liquidated. New management will fix the run rate by doing many undone but obvious things as pointed out here so often. Changes on the CLEC side could be very bloody.”
Some people own 1 million in unsecured debt which is now worth 120k. They’re better off waiting for bankruptcy to finalize vs selling at 12 cents on the dollar. Don’t be fooled no one wants to be holding unsecured debt with Windstream.
Windstream will exist after bankruptcy however minus a lot of sub entities listed in the bankruptcy documentation. Windstream will never be Windstream as we know it now.
My guess is during bankruptcy they will have an opportunity to shed everything they don’t want and emerge with a small platform of products and services. SDWan, Ucaas maybe fixed wireless.
“All he had to do was put three thousand people out of work, make their 401ks worthless, destroy all of the shareholder value, and stiff all of the people we owe money to. Mission accomplished”
Geez when you put it that way its almost as if the world would be a better place if he was never born
“The leader of the Arkansas 5 is a smart man, why go through the hassle of working 10 years when you can get the same amount in less than 2. He will wind up with over 20 million dollars after all is said and done. ”
All he had to do was put three thousand people out of work, make their 401ks worthless, destroy all of the shareholder value, and stiff all of the people we owe money to. Mission accomplished
The leader of the Arkansas 5 is a smart man, why go through the hassle of working 10 years when you can get the same amount in less than 2. He will wind up with over 20 million dollars after all is said and done. He saw an opportunity and took it and it's all legal. Just unbelieveable.
Another event this spring to watch: the Uniti vs. Windstream hearing in March – the "is-it-a-true-lease" or "just-a-financial-shenanigan" question.
It was determined once already in the Aurelius suit but this suit involves somewhat different definitions of the term as applied to bankruptcy law.
Or maybe it doesn't.
Regardless of who's ethically right or wrong, Uniti probably has stronger cards, legally. They won't settle with Windstream unless it's on favorable terms.
If Uniti wins, Uniti will get rent payments ahead of all the secured creditors. The unsecured creditors will get a few pennies on the dollar.
For Windstream's junior creditors, this is a Hail Mary pass. If Uniti loses, then Uniti goes to the back of the line with other unsecured creditors. The original unsecureds will have more to share and the secured will come out whole. Uniti itself might go into bankruptcy.
Windstream management has been put in the awkward position of testifying - under oath - about potentially contradictory positions on this issue. They also have some legal awkwardness as to how they marketed the Uniti spinoff a few years ago.
Besides management's lawyers, there are also the creditors'. The creditors also want to see Uniti lose and they have any such compunctions about management looking bad under oath.
If these layoff.com threads aren't nasty or longwinded enough for you, check out all the arguing about the legal issues among small Uniti speculators on the seekingalpha.com investor board:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3525193-windstream-works-to-block-uniti-call-for-summary-judgment
” The thing is, they are supposed to be doing these things now. They havent even completed the plan. They are stalling. They have done zero to fix the run rate. They have to plan. This is a slow motion bank heist.”
Right now, legally, management is holding the cards as “debtor-in-possession”.
To an outsider, it sure looks like stalling but then maybe they have a secret plan I don’t know about.
The power will shift probably by mid-2020. Very impatient creditors will take over and change things. The biggest creditor, Elliott, has experience in squeezing mismanaged telcos. (See the AT&T link earlier in this thread).
Also see the earlier post about plan deadlines. That’s when management’s big term paper is due. And when power shifts bigly, barring something brilliant and believable from management.
These creditors are not fools
"Windstream won't be liquidated. New management will fix the run rate by doing many undone but obvious things as pointed out here so often. Changes on the CLEC side could be very bloody."
The thing is, they are supposed to be doing these things now. They havent even completed the plan. They are stalling. They have done zero to fix the run rate. They have to plan. This is a slow motion bank heist. The customers are being shopped around to other companies as part of the liquidation plan, that is what is taking so long and that is the reason no other tactics are being employed to stop the bleeding. The plan is liquidation. The only action being taken other than dragging things about to increase the KEIP payout for the LR5 is consolidating teams which is step one in the RIF handbook.
"We will become insolvent by June when the money runs out..."
"From that point on it's chapter 7, everyone gets kicked out and the creditors take over. Assets will be liquidated."
Here are prices for Windstream bonds this month:
1st lien bonds - 96% of face value:
https://finra-markets.morningstar.com/BondCenter/BondDetail.jsp?ticker=C721421&symbol=WIN4561451
2nd lien bonds - 38% of face value:
https://finra-markets.morningstar.com/BondCenter/BondDetail.jsp?ticker=FWIN4662678&symbol=WIN4662678
Unsecured bonds - 12% of face value:
https://finra-markets.morningstar.com/BondCenter/BondDetail.jsp?ticker=C592165&symbol=WIN3982620
There's billions of dollars represented by all those bonds. The companies owning them are very sophisticated. If they didn't think they'd get back at least the value reflected in those prices above, they'd sell them today.
Windstream won't be liquidated. New management will fix the run rate by doing many undone but obvious things as pointed out here so often. Changes on the CLEC side could be very bloody.
We will become insolvent by June when the money runs out. Our run rate is short $40M a month right now. The LR5 are just kicking the can down the road to buy some time until they hit ZERO.
From that point on it's chapter 7, everyone gets kicked out and the creditors take over. Assets will be liquidated.
WINMQ is currently trading at 8 CENTS. If the bond holders and wall street are hoping for 10-15 cents they are still underwater.
There is no Plan B, this is it!
PS
Windstream will NOT get liquidated. The creditors won't allow this.
The ILEC operated (properly) as an ongoing concern is worth more than the liquidation value of the company.
As for the CLEC, I can't say – if it can't be made profitable, it may be unloaded.
"Have them liquidated and and get 2/3 of your $ back."
There is no way in heck that Win's liquidated assets will be worth that much. Oh and dont forget the $20 Million dollars in KEIP the thief's in charge get before any money is paid out. The only people that win are the Arkansas 5 and the lawyers. They are making more money from bankrupting the company than they would have running it well. Maybe this was the plan all along.
"Not guaranteed. Only if win can come up with a plan approved by the creditors and or court. So far, they have not shown any progress."
Windstream management, as "debtor-in-possession" has the exclusive right to submit a plan, then solicit support for it - until certain deadlines. (Exclusivity deadline: April 22, 2020; solicitation deadline: June 22, 2020)
After those deadlines, anyone can submit a competing plan. I've seen multiple plans in competition before.
The creditors have got billions on the line and are watching this situation like a hawk. The largest creditor is Elliott Management, a private equity fund that understands telecom. They just forced through changes at AT&T:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/tech/att-elliot-management-deal/index.html
If management puts forth a lame plan, I suspect the creditors will first try to get management to revise it to something everyone agrees on during the solicitation period. I'm guessing the parties are already talking about the rough outlines of a deal.
The plan will address company operations and how much each creditor group gets.
The who-gets-how-much part will be the interesting fight.
In theory, the first lien (first mortgage) creditors will get 100% before the second lien (second mortgage) group gets anything; then they get 100% before the unsecured creditors. In reality, probably nobody will get cash – the fortunate ones will get new bonds with different interest rates and amounts of collateral depending on their "seniority". Then less senior creditors may get some new stock in the company in lieu of some bonds.
In reality, there'll be jockeying and quibbling between parties as to interest rates, collateral, repayment periods, representation on the board, etc.
Right now, Wall Street is saying unsecured creditors are likely to recover 10-15 cents on the dollar in the form of new stock/bonds. (This is based on the current value of unsecured bonds).
Obviously, if the unsecured creditors are getting so little, there's zero hope for the old shareholders.
As for the operating plan, my guess is that the creditors (including Elliott) will just nod politely for now, then tear it up and hire a new team the day the company exits bankruptcy.
Right. Put yourself in the creditor’s shoes.
You have your entire retirement invested in win and they file for bankruptcy. You can;
- Have them liquidated and and get 2/3 of your $ back.
- Bet your retirement that they will somehow figure out how to sell a few hundred thousand wired phones and dsl with the slowest speed, terrible reliability and the Lowest customer satisfaction rating in the industry. All while competitors are expanding cell coverage exponentially overnight in those same areas.
Not guaranteed. Only if win can come up with a plan approved by the creditors and or court. So far, they have not shown any progress.
‘Chapter 11 provides a process for rehabilitating the company's faltering business. Sometimes the company successfully works out a plan to return to profitability; sometimes, in the end, it liquidates.‘
It's possible because the company became insolvent as soon as Aurelius filed suit. The company is in bankruptcy and new stock will be issued. The WINQ stock is worthless.
It was a 5 to 1 reverse.
Stock keeps dropping, at $00.09 currently. How is that possible after a 6 to 1 reverse split?! And they want to retain any leadership personnel? This ponzi scheme is about to wrap up lol
Hey dude - nobody cares
I was paid guaranteed commissions For 9 months due to the lack of sales.
Engineering keeps this company going, what a joke. It's the NOCs and the techs that get stuck figuring out most of the complex issues when the tacs and customer support groups decide it's a NOC problem after sitting on issues until the end of the day or several weeks.
There are tons of excell spreadsheet engineers in this company who don't know how to get into much less even troubleshhot the equipment they deploy. I'm not talking about E1s either, I'm referring to E2s and E3s. Those people never seem to get better at thier jobs and learn the stuff. It's unfortunate the term engineer is applied to some of the c-appiest people here.
Instead of paying people to leave, maybe they should start paying people to stay.
I think they’re talking about network engineers, not osp. But yeah we’ve gone to a lot of desk engineering and contractor engineering from records and it is terrible. A lot of times it seems like the goal is just to get it to construction and let them figure it out.
Whoever thinks engineering keeps this place afloat needs a lobotomy. Engineering continually sh–ting the bed is one of the reasons customers have left. The engineers that I know are too lazy to leave the office and they always gripe at the techs because the tech may have not taken a picture or attached a picture in an email for an issue that needs addressed. I had an engineer call me a few weeks ago and ask how a new construction order should get done. I told him that he was the engineer and it was his job to figure it out. Besides all management; engineering is positions that need to be cut.
I've never worked for a company like win with so many unearned egos. And, So many departments who feel like they single-handedly keep the company afloat. Lol. Keep patting yourself on the back. And then, look where we are. Good job.
The ONLY department left, that is important, is the one that prints the paychecks. We just have to make sure they have enough ink to make it to closing day. And that shouldn't be much.
Engineering and net techs have been decimated by layoffs. Windstream missed their window to collapse this network and become profitable. Now they dont have the man power to get the day to day work done. We are back to using contractors for installs and techs just react to tickets. And the contractors they hire are horrible and their work ALWAYS needs to be corrected. My manager is spiteful and doesnt allow us to correct alot of these issues. We have equipment that was installed 5yrs ago that never carried any traffic because contractors messed up and it never got fixed smh
I agree engineering and techs keep the company going. If there is a company left
Engineering keeps the company going
At this point, WHO CARES? R.I.P. Windstream