Thread regarding General Electric Co. layoffs

Pension Freeze = 11-12% pay cut for mid-career employees?

Looking for confirmation from my smart GE friends to see if a pension freeze for someone retiring in 20 years is equivalent to a 11-12% pay cut. Here is what I had to do to estimate this since GE does not want to share the old pension estimation tool:

Assumptions:


  1. Retiring in 20 years.
  2. Pension accrual rate per year of service 1.65% (if pension had not frozen).
  3. 1.5% average annual increase in wages (I am an optimist).
  4. 6% annualized return (based on S&P returns from 1999 to 2019).
  5. Federal + State Tax Rate = 20%.
  6. 20 years of post-retirement pension withdrawals at 100% rate (I said I was an optimist).
  7. 8 years of additional pension withdrawals at 50% rate (spousal benefit).

Calculations:


  1. Use IRR (internal rate of return) of 6% to estimate lump sum needed at retirement to match cumulative withdrawals (sum of items 6 & 7 above).
  2. Compute additional post-tax annual savings rate needed (after including extra contributions from GE) to accumulate the lump sum.

Results


  1. I estimated I would need to save additional 11-12% (assuming 20% taxes) to compensate for the lost pension.
  2. If one is able to make the entire extra contributions pre-tax, it equates to having to save extra 9% of their wage from 2021 to retirement.
  3. If GE had not provided the extra 3% match and 2% transition, I would need to save 16% (assuming a 20% tax rate) or 13% (if done pre-tax).
  4. Simply no way to save that much extra with stagnant pay and rising health-care costs.

Can someone provide feedback on if this makes sense? Thanks in advance.

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| 3149 views | | 13 replies (last October 14, 2019) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+11qaEhTx

13 replies (most recent on top)

Quitting does not help you. Almost no companies offer pension a now (except, of course, for their top execs who continue to get richer at the expense of the people who do all the work).

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Post ID: @6xif+11qaEhTx

A frozen pension means you have to quit or lose big time. Don’t forget the compound interest you also lose.

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Post ID: @3ncy+11qaEhTx

I’m 10 years away from retirement (early), and those last 10 yrs were going to double my pension benefit. I estimate the loss at roughly $2500/month for 20 years. That’s $600k lifetime loss. I chose GE many years ago over another higher paying company due to the defined benefit pension. F*ck me, right?

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Post ID: @3vll+11qaEhTx

Pension payments are made for the rest of your life, no matter how long you live.

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Post ID: @1poq+11qaEhTx

A 10% paycut from an insolvent company is better than a 100% paycut.

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Post ID: @1tqx+11qaEhTx

I did a similar calc 18 mos ago when I had a job offer in hand and the option to get a severance package from GE Power. I’m 20 years from retirement as well. It was about 12-15% increase was needed. Fortunately the 401K match was better and health insurance was less at my new company. Even this new GE 401k match is below market. I get 100% match up to 6%, and a 2% kicker every year. So I put in 6% and get 8%.

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Post ID: @iax+11qaEhTx

I simply do not understand as to why it is so difficult for Culp or the BOD to claw back the money from the former CEO and top executives. Other publicly held companies have done it before. Culp is weak, not so great as every body thinks.

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Post ID: @tsi+11qaEhTx

@11qaEhTx, your question is too complex. Keep it simple: if the cost to fund the DB (frozen plan) is 14% of wages and its 3% under the 401k plan, that would be an 11% reduction, correct. Of course there is less cost that's why GE did it! The question you need ask yourself is what is your private sector market value. Can you leave GE and go another private sector job and get join a DB plan, NO! I do agree that GE will lose some talent over this change, but I'd argue it's the talent they should lose! Who the he_l waits around for a DB plan pension anymore in the private sector?

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Post ID: @lge+11qaEhTx

I think what is being overlooked here is the fact that salary is connected to the Pension benefit. Once the Pension is frozen and benefits can no longer be accrued over time, it allows the company to slash salary wages without being accused of trying to reduce Pension payouts in the future. Now it can slash wages and claim other reasons.

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Post ID: @ucd+11qaEhTx

GE salaries are based on the pension benefit being factored in. At least a 10% increase in salary is needed based on market salary levels for engineers to break even. The 4% adder to the 401K for 2 years only gives folks more time to look for a good job outside of GE. I expect a major loss in talent from anyone with 8+ years of service and younger than 55 years of age.

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Post ID: @vtf+11qaEhTx

Just like the permissive time off scam was issued in phases per career band the pension elimination and/or freeze will be rolled out in phases so everyone can enjoy the greed of GE.

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Post ID: @aym+11qaEhTx

Go to My Benefits portal. It has a Pension estimate tool. See what your estimated monthly amount will be at 1/1/2021 when the Pension is frozen. Then type in any date like 1/1/2040. It will give an estimated amount. Then you will know what the difference is. Of course do this quickly before the Estimate Tool is not needed anymore.

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Post ID: @pru+11qaEhTx

Yes, very much so. I did similar calcs to see how much my pension benefit was worth in terms of base salary. Left GE two years ago. While I liked GE, I am much better off in terms of pay, opportunities and learnings.

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Post ID: @bce+11qaEhTx

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