Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

-Rwrd: I would reply, but it just not worth the effort. To have such a small d--k must be a huge disappointment. You and your boy Trump.

I agree 100% with @Qtnn.

No constitution right to heath care, agreed. Then again there is no constitutional right to K12 education, access to roads, police protection, or for working water and sewer systems... not a "right" but things that separate modern working societies from 3rd world Neanderthal camps. Many countries have much better health care systems (better average outcomes at much lower costs). Don't tell me to love it or leave...rather what me need is more people to step up and love it enough to do the hard work to improve it. ACA was a start, despite its flaws. It would appear Trump and the republicans have no useful ideas what so ever.

Hospitals have "imported" doctors and registered nurses and medical technicians from overseas in swarms, especially during the Bush and Obama years in an attempt to reign in the high cost of medical care. This hasn't resulted in curbing medical costs at all, but just the opposite. Big medical and pharmaceutical corporations have only gotten richer. Instead of costs coming down due to paying less in salaries to Indians and Arabs coming in to fill medical careers, costs have stayed expensive and are continually going up because the payroll cost savings have translated to higher corporate profits. All the while, both parties in Congress do nothing to level the playing field and crack down on abusive high medical care and insurance costs. This country is as corrupt as any third world hell hole.

@Oyoo, In that case, let the government subsidies, handouts and wealth distributions continue forever more. This country has a big problem with income inequality and it does nothing to change the laws that are in clearly in favor of the rich and the well paid. All Americans, emphasis on "all", deserve basic protections, and affordable healthcare is at the top of everyone's list. Just because I used to be well paid and now I find myself laid off or retired, does that mean I can now be shafted into overpaying for expensive healthcare or having to settle for less quality in coverage. Forget your analogies about rights to bear arms and rights of free speech. The right to living healthy in America, above all other countries on this earth, is preeminent and needs to regarded as a birth right. You know this to be true.

I don't consider "Rights" things or services that others have to provide for you. We have a "Right" to free speech", a "right to bear arms", etc. I do not consider a "right" as being catered to by another individual in any way. It really doesn't matter what the service is. That's really not how it works.(save me the analogies, and examples, I've heard all of them, if you don't get my point go back to a real school). Entitled people and pathetic dependent loser parasites often feel that way. Some people feel that the world owes them a living as well. The world nor your country inherently "Owes" you anything like food, health care, lodging, etc. These are benefits, entitlements and hand-outs provided to those who cannot fend for themselves by compassionate people through tax dollars. They were never intended to produce forever dependent useless parasites addicted to, and feeling they are forever entitled to, government aid, but it seems like, ladies & gentlemen, we have found one posting here on this thread.

No, @Ouyg. I'm an American citizen, so I don't need to go to Canada. Feel free to move yourself there if you want. And yes, "access to affordable healthcare" is something we should all have and be able to pay for too. What we have now, even before Obamacare, is unaffordable healthcare. Way too expensive. Big medical and big pharma are only concerned about profits and their stockholders. Healthcare providers, doctors, hospitals and drug companies should not be like all other businesses on Wall Street. Affordable healthcare needs to be akin to a constitutional right in this country for all citizens and legal residents. Until we all have access to affordable insurance, I advocate the government granting adequate subsidies to non working citizens and legal residents of an older age, to bring down the premiums to affordable levels, because everyone's health is important and should be protected as a constitutional right.

Mlpn, what do you mean by a "constitutional right"? Paid for by someone else, in an entitled parasite socialist society? All of a sudden things that weren't even in existence a generation or two ago and require the effort, hard work, dedication and input of "others" automatically become a "Right" because you think it should be?

Must be nice. You mentioned "access to affordable", isn't that something you pay for? Under what circumstances has a US citizen ever NOT had access to health care and insurance, as long as they were willing to work hard and pay for it? Medicaid exists for those who can't. It's been around for years. If you would like socialist medicine, just move to a country with it, like Canada, it's a beautiful country for the most part. And get in line with the others. No one's stopping you. That health care is paid for by tax dollars, which are quite high, it's not free, it's very expensive and it's plagued with difficulties and long waits, hence the influx of patients here from there. Read up on it. Don't believe what you read here.

I believe Health Care needs to be a Constitutional right in the US. Everyone should have access to affordable first rate healthcare. Current prices for insurance must be cut by 60%. I also believe that only US citizens and legally registered residents should be the only people to have access to quality care. All others would have to seek their medical care from charitable organizations. End 100% of frivolous medical lawsuits. No more legal settlements, prove your case or be subject to stiff penalties. All healthcare insurance companies must sell their policies in all 50 states at the same price. The government should subsidize the elderly's premiums to make it as affordable as the average aged person in each state. The government must put an end to insurance and Medicare fraud and highly regulate the pharmaceutical drug prices in the U.S. Allow proven drugs overseas to be sold here to promote fair drug price competition. You want affordable healthcare? Do these things for starters.

Replace it with what we had before Obamacare. Emergency room service was afforded to all, including those unable to pay, as it is today. Policies were available based on what you could pay, not based on what the politicians could get other people to pay for you to get your vote. If immigration laws were properly enforced, the crowding of ER's by fraudulent parasite users would be considerably less.

Health Care is not a Constitutional right in the US.

Health Care, a practice requiring sometimes teams of physicians, expertly trained, who've spent years of their lives in debt preparing for their careers, and billions in modern equipment, never has and never has and never will be a "natural born right" for any human, generally speaking, contrary to the belief of some deluded, entitled individuals born on this Earth recently. It was never even in question in the past.

Lxdg, Yes indeed, you are 100% correct sir!!! Great point. That's why I do not use the exchanges, even though I qualify for the subsidies. A poor, second rate policy could be the difference between life and death with us older folks. I see the doctor regularly, well, once a year, and I like to be able to go at the drop of a hat for anything with a small co-pay. That's the plan I have now and I love it! It's gives me a sense of security. I believe I get every pennies worth out of what I pay for that.

"a mansion or a small 1-bedroom?"... analogy does not work well for healthcare because although I can be content and happy living in a one bedroom....there is no grey between alive and dead.

-LCJY: Replace with what exactly... I am all ears. My health ins. should not be tied to my employer... full stop. I should not lose access to coverage when I get laid off...particularly if I have the funds to keep paying the premiums... that's just not right. I also should not get jacked with huge rate increases after I get a "condition"... that's not what "insurance" should be! The huge costs in general are due to an inefficient health care... which will only increase without an organized government health care system of some sort... free enterprise does not work with healthcare; when was the last time you shopped around for the best deal on a CAT-scan? The ACA was put in place so that everyone had some coverage, everyone had to pay in something, and there were still choices in care level / cost (bronze, silver, gold, etc.) ... not perfect, but a lot better than before. So again, the question is ... replace with what?

I got my policy on the ACA exchange after my Cobra timed out. I am not subsidized, and it is rather expensive, but wife has a pre-existing condition so I was glad to have that option. Had I been unemployed 10 years ago before ACA I would be in a real pickle...no insurance options. I and mine have carried health insurance our whole lives through various employers and I think it would be totally unfair if I now could not find coverage just when I need it because I lost my job. Everyone here seems to focus on those who get subsidized policies (in their look down their noise tone)....but the fact is non-group policies where the death before ACA because even if you paid your premiums in full on time they could slide everyone with "conditions" into progressively higher risk groups (at higher costs). All I can say to all you "repeal" folks is watch for what you wish, because there but for the grace of God go I!

I qualify for the full ACA subsidies, since I live off of my qualified dividends but it's still low enough. Quite well, actually. But I do not use the ACA insurance plans, I reviewed them all and none offer the same as the plan that I have now for quality and cost., and I can afford the best. Do what you want. I am not a tight-wad penny pincher when it comes to health care. It has been known to come back and bite you in the A$$. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Honestly, Jmlu, you sound like a petulant child crying for something the other kids get, but you don't have. Sorry fella. Some people win and other lose. That's life. We all live in the great USA. Learn to use the system to your benefit and come back for seconds if you can. Nobody is going to come knocking on your door to give you anything. You got to go out and get it for yourself, IF YOU QUALIFY. What to qualify for something? Learn the rules and the loopholes and grab the bull by the horns. That's one way people with money get to keep more of it.

Yes, I am using the ACA, but I am pretty down on my luck, and I honestly do not like doing it, and iit is definitely being a pathetic parasite. If I could afford it, I would definitely get real insurance because the previous poster is right, you really can't afford the services with the negotiated costs and high deductible, for everyday needs. The coverage is pathetic and is basically emergency only. I hope when I get back on my feet that I will not be associated with pathetic Obamacare, and will no longer be a parasite like many on this site. I am not proud of taking handouts and desire to stand on my own two feet like a man, unlike a lot of losers who take take take and basically walk around with their hands out all the time like sorry pathetic losers. No, Jjof, I'm not "entitled" to someone else's tax dollars and I will only use this welfare until I no longer need it. You guys are pathetic leeches and think that living on the nanny state forever nursing at the government teat is a normal way of life. Not me. Suit yourself.

The way I see things, if you are entitled to something from the government you can use, take it. The ACA may be falling apart, but another program will take its place before long. If you can legally qualify for a helping hand, take it. It leaves you with more of your own money for your use.

Well they just announced that the ACA is losing some more of it's Anthem providers. What a horrible debacle the ACA has been from the get go. I am happy to not have to be subject to that horrid program any more. I agree with the poster who compares the ACA to any other government handout, because that's 100% what it is and is handled as poorly. I had it for the first year after retiring and kissed it goodbye. Best decision I ever made. With the deductibles it ended up costing more than a regular plan. We did the math and determined that although the premiums are higher, the retiree insurance is the much better deal for a better product. The premiums are just the up front costs is all, you pay more in the end for any type of service or office visits. You're out of luck with the ACA because the costs are not negotiated as well. You'll never know unless you try. Nothing's free, Boy's & Girls and you get what you pay for. Don't scrimp on the most important thing in your life, your health.

-Itso, I am pretty sure that -Ebta needs the ACA and is embarrassed to admit that he needs it and keeps accusing others of being less than him because they do not need it, and many wealthy people actually don't qualify so he accuses them of things like, "you are just upset that you do not qualify"???? Seriously??? Yes, I'm sure they drive by in their Lexus and look at him and think... wow- sure wish I could get me some of that subsidized health care like Bubba!!! Sure, there are people living in trailer parks and housing projects that don't qualify for Welfare. We all are upset that we are not them.. He is also embarrassed when anyone makes a post that explains what Obamacare really is - a government handout paid for by other tax-payers, not generally indicative of a successful, independent person supporting himself. Why would he keep bringing it up? No one really cares about his personal business.

Just my 2 cents.

I apologize to "butt in", but if I remember correctly, the Federal Government has been taking 6.2% out of my paycheck and the paychecks of almost everyone working since a bit after 1935 when they created the act to provide OASDI; Old Age Survivors and Disability Insurance to everyone working and a bit more to those who need more, like the disabled to provide a backup safety net, that you contribute to, and receive the benefits from, upon qualification. Of course it was never meant to be a sole source of income in retirement, but you do earn it, with some exceptions that should be fixed (another discussion). The 6.2% that your employer contributes is earned by you also, indirectly through your labor. It does not grow from trees or as a gift from your employers personal account, I can assure you.

I challenge anyone to compare OASDI (Social Security) with the abomination that is the ACA. intelligently, again, but until then, please feel free to keep embarrassing yourselves.

Hey -Hxaf, can't you read or do you only like to pester everyone? Read the post by Ebta again. It doesn't seem to me that he needs to depend on government handouts. He qualifies for the ACA like you do. No one is a mooch if they qualify for any benefit. Are you going to call him a mooch when he starts taking Sicial Security too? Get real.

@Ebta, Actually, I qualify for the ACA but do not use it or need it just like I don't need Welfare or Foodstamps. That's a shame that you have to be dependent upon the government for your health care after all those years. I am so happy that I saved and don't have to be a parasite sponge. That's what happens when you do not prepare properly for the future. Should have paid better attention in school, son. That't the honest truth. Good luck with that horrible insurance. Hope you never have to use it, son.

@Enfi, I don't have to be a parasite sponge either. I can pay the pre-65 Chevron Retiree Medical rip-off premiums if I had to, but why throw my hard earned money away when I can qualify for one of the very few ACA Plans for a tiny fraction of the premiums. You complain because you don't qualify. That's the obvious truth and everyone knows it, since if they were in the same fortunate circumstance as me, you and everyone else would jump at it in a heartbeat. It's a no-brainer.

The ACA is a redistribution of wealth and it's a failed experiment at best. It allows people to become entitled parasites on the nanny state. It is so flaw-ridden that there's no way that it can ever become solvent and it's only a matter of time before it implodes, and that has already begun rates keep going up. I consider myself fortunate to not have to be a parasite sponge and depend on the government for my well-being. Some of you have to. Good luck and God bless.

Yes I agree with the Cadillac/Corolla analogy but I also understand that your health is the most important thing in your life and crucial to enjoying and continuing everything else about it, and if you have any loved ones, for their continuation of same. For that reason, I would much prefer the Best level of care and convenience that I worked hard for and can afford. I have no qualms about paying a little more for a better product. It is not but a mere fraction of my assets and income and that which would only otherwise be donated to charities, which already get plenty from me.

Thank you, zqts. Of all the posts in this thread, you summed up everything very well.

If you read up on it, ACA was intended to provide affordable health insurance for those few Americans who are not covered by Medicare nor working and covered by their employer. If you think the Chevron pre65 coverage and cost is affordable for you and worth it, buy it. If you don't consider it affordable then go for ACA. That is what it is for and if Congress wanted to apply a means test related to net worth they would but such tests basically never work in the US. ACA is more like affordable health care provided to all citizens in for example Canada. There is no issue or shame in using it for the intended purpose and everyone should do so if it fits their needs. It is not gaming anything.

For me it is like Chevron offering me a Cadillac for a modest discount vs Uncle Sam offering me a Corolla for almost free. I will take the Toyota, but if you/need the Cadillac, go for it.

@yxtl, I totally agree with what you said. I'm taking advantage of having a $50 ACA plan while playing the system. But, the way I see it, our American Congress enacted this law and all its rules. Surely they should have known people like me would take advantage of loopholes to profit from the ACA. It's on them and the American voter to care a lot more about how the laws are made and enforced. It's obvious to me that Congress didn't give a crap, so here I am taking what's legally mine, even if I have to play poor to get it. I've spent 40 years working hard and paying my taxes. All the while, I've complained about the abuses of people taking a piece of my taxes to help themselves. Now it's my chance to take some of that overtaxation back. Finally, I catch a little break and going to ride this one for as long as I please. Thank you.

I am using the ACA but I earn very little and quality. Actually subsidized healthcare insurance, as the ACA (was supposed to be) designed, is intended to be for people who cannot afford the higher premiums and also the high costs of major health expenses and give poorer people access to the same care as the wealthier folks. As far as I understand, it was never intended for rich people to "play the system". Anyone who does is taking advantage of the system and taking advantage of those who are less fortunate than them. That's a simple fact. You losers can argue about that all day if you want, but you cannot cannot change the facts. It doesn't matter if you've found a legal loophole or not.

Good for for you, yqnv. Got a question for you; Do you take all your legally entitled credits when you file your 1040 tax return? Do you subtract your standard or itemized deduction? I sure hope so. That is a government handout, you know. It's an incentive to report and pay your taxes and "get a little discount" so you don't have to feel jipped completely. The ACA is another little help for those who can take it. It's your government and mine. Don't throw away your Dollars paying for something that otherwise you can get at a discount. But then, it's your money. Squander or spend it as you like. Don't chastise me because I choose to use the system when it's all legal.

I personally have prepared for life, saved and invested, and made the right decisions earlier to be able to afford the best of healthcare, and it does not involve the ACA or any other type of government hand-out or entitlement program. There's no "game" that I need to play. I prefer not to have to seek government assistance for anything that I do and I have no need to. YMMV

@ytop, I'm sorry to hear of your predicament with the ACA. I'm aware that over 85% of all ACA plans are not worth the money one spends on premiums. There's 10% that are good, but costs more. And there are the remaining 5% of plans that are excellent. Great savings in premiums if you qualify (or know how to play the game) and with very low out of pocket expense. I have such an excellent ACA plan. They do exist.

I am 61 and Started off with one of those ACA plans and ended up dropping it. It was the low-dollar high deductible one. I got tired of all of the costs for everything out of pocket and also their "costs" were higher than what I was used to with the company plan (Now Anthem Blue Cross). Their "costs" is what I mean, the cost that the insured pays before you meet the deductible on doctors visits and prescriptions, etc. The costs varies, depend on what insurance you have. It's that negotiated cost for services, based on your plan. The ACA plan costed more after everything was said and done. I am not a very sick person, just go in for the routine stuff, and am on high-cholesterol meds, that's it. The ACA plan was costing us more for everything at the end of the year. I switched back to the company plan, retiree. Even though the premiums look a lot higher, the overall cost per year is less. Just my experience.

Hey @yjhx. Make no mistake, I don't rely on the government or ever will, but I will take what I can legally. I didn't become a millionaire squandering my money. I'm not a fool who will soon be parted from his money.

You have it well -xvzs. Congratulations on your success. I'm sure you figured things out long ago and also hit on a little luck too. I hope to be so lucky in 30 years. I got my career started five years ago.

@xonr, To answer your question on how much I maintain my taxable income to get the subsidy I receive. I pull $27,000 a year from taxable retirement savings (401k). Then I live off an additional $25 to $30k pulled from Roth IRA and bank savings accounts. I have a small cash business on the side of which I don't report to the IRS. Depending on sales, I reduce my draw on the Roth investments. Mind you, my home and cars are all paid. No mortgage, debts or children. Life is great. In 5 years I start on Medicare Advantage and my healthcare choices open up and I plan to start my Social Security benefits.

Yes, I don't agree with all the name-calling and such but I agree with the guy who states that if you need to bother with ACA subsidies, you're not actually financially independent, that's just a fact. I'm happy that I am not anchored to that burden as a dependent upon the nanny state.

If I can summarize the key points I have read so far -

• main choices pre65 and post Cobra are ACA and Chevron plan

-ACA is lowest cost particularly if you are able to structure your taxable income to keep it low

-ACA may one day be modified or go away

-Some people have political or moral issues with ACA

• CVX plan is higher cost by up to an order of magnitude or more ($1000/mo vs $50/mo)

• once one enters and leaves the CVX plan it may not be possible to return. Check rules.

So I have two follow up questions -

1) how low are you guys able to keep your taxable income as fraction of total income? 25%? I assume you are pulling from after tax savings.

2) some have claimed huge differences in coverage between ACA and CVX plans. We need more details here. Let's assume one is healthy with no need for doctor visits beyond typical stuff. In this case the health coverage is protection against major hospital illness that would otherwise cost one tens of thousands out of pocket. Please compare the two plans on this basis and be specific. A good example would be open heart surgery.

COBRA is actually for 18 months, wwly. The first 6 months gets subsidized by your ex-employer, and the other 12 months, if you dare pay for it, is way too high.