Why do so many of them lack common sense? What’s the criteria for promotion? Inability to form a full sentence or what?
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@rt Lmao I was designing and performing at the level these designers do when I was in 5th grade elementary already fully versed in the latest standard tools in the industry. By that time I got into just about everything and was moving onto using Cinema 4d. Already way past PhotoShop, Sony Vegas and all of that. By the time I started my internship here, I was doing my SWE stuff while simultaneously delivering full UI/UX screens/flows for the product team at a 10x rate faster than the designers here themselves. I got a promotion though on april 1st here working full time! Well rewarded for all my contributions. I was highly respected here. Everyone treated me so fairly. I love ford.
DPD has leaders with no relevant skills but they climb ladders with their big nose and rude comments. These are people who google to find out the meaning of terms and principles that all designers should know irrespective of their background. They have special skills to sabotage anyone on their way, probably a criteria for promotion.
"Let's say we needed more people for this above of work (contractors) rather than improve efficiency." tbh from what I saw was that they were totally reaching by saying 3 months for 3 contractors as an estimate for something I did in like a week and a half. They would probably have needed double that and twice as long. Esp because the pre-mvp stage before I came messed up on architecture related stuff that brought ICA and PCA requirements to fulfill in regards to unique security challenges. I mean I was getting slowed down intentionally near end of PCA, I had to duck people to get it done because so many cooks in the kitchen that pretend and can't code really is a problem that I think was a big blocker. I get we want to distribute credit or work so it doesn't look like 10x is possible but damn it was really bad. NGL with whatever was going on, it probably wouldve taken triple but i digress.
@hw If you aren't born with the right pigment here, you're NGMI
if someone referred you to this company and you thought otherwise, you were the product being sold
@hw Instead of thinking about what it takes to be a manager, look at the data. What do all these people have in common?
They know that criteria is plural for one thing…
Shhh, don't talk so loud so others won't hear you. Let's not release the report today or ever. Let's stop running tests that fail. Let's fix something so the pass rate improves and we still don't know the root cause. Let's look good and make an impression that we look competent. Let's polish every report. Let's say we needed more people for this above of work (contractors) rather than improve efficiency. Let's have meetings where we discuss how to improve code or could or release processes without actually doing the radical change that is needed, just a bit. Being jolly soft gentleman with manners to not hurt anyone's feeling or bonus is more important... Just pretend you are helping me ...
@ep who writes this bullsh-t, get real
They are not technical enough to do the engineering work. This is their escape to get paid and keep the job. This is what it is.
@ep "FIT or GIT". You won't ever be disappointed that way!
What do so-called “people leaders” actually know about people?
Why is there a false divide between technical skill and leadership?
Why is integrity punished instead of rewarded?
Is there any viable path forward for someone who values both competence and ethics?
Your instincts about ritualized cruelty aren’t wrong. The performance management systems at legacy corporations like Ford often resemble institutionalized hazing. Force rankings, subjective reviews, peer cannibalism..it’s all designed to create artificial scarcity and fear-driven compliance.
That’s only true in companies where the structure supports individual contributor excellence without forcing those people into management to be promoted. If you don’t see that path at Ford, then it might be because it doesn’t exist in any meaningful way.
Sometimes, what we learn is exactly what not to become. Watching how dysfunction operates and how it dresses itself up in corporate language and institutional immunity can give you a blueprint for what real leadership should look like. But staying in that system for too long? It risks reshaping you. Sometimes you need to look outside the company. That will show you what reinforces behavior on the inside.
@de What the fu-k do people "leaders" in this company know about people? This is not a people-centric environment. What technical ladder? Why can't you be both? And why do you think people that are "leaders: (aka not non-people leaders) at Ford are actually capable of being leaders to people? No integrity here. Just sadistic cu-ts normalizing criminal behavior. Nothing to learn here unless it is what not to do. I might as well donate my spine to a better cause than lose it being trained on how to be what they call a "people leader" here. Even then, what kind of technical ladder do you mean? I don't see that path as viable unless it’s the same as the path for a non-technical ladder at Ford, spineless betrayal of basic human values through sadistic rituals. This company is like frat hazing amped up on government immunity.
Ever once heard them talk about how they will improve non-technical side of the company? How they will encourage mentorship and training of people leaders? No. You will hear them talk about re-imagining/improving technical leadership all day long; the funny thing that ladder is working (as in people are incentivized to join the technical ladder) even if it fails to deliver technical progress to the company's projects. Instead we put these non-people leaders in charge of everything and surprisingly those things fail to achieve. It's amazing to watch this. Keep an eye out for it -- it's comes up once or twice every year or so.
Why? It's not the name brand clothes, it's not how much one knows. It's not the intellect one shows. It's the color of your nose. (As long long as it's BROWN)! Like the prose?
FnF is the issue.
This is why Michigan law explicitly prohibits marriage between first cousins.
Everybody on its own now. There is no more true teams and passion for work. Ther system turned employees into disposable ants.
@ak With the performance review system manipulated**
@a6 Skinner observed that the power of punishment to suppress behavior usually disappears when the threat of punishment is removed. Indeed, we all refrain from using TheLayoff during work hours, when we know our boss is around, and we similarly adhere to the speed limit when we know we are being watched by a police patrol.
You do not want to be in a perverse incentive system that’s causing you to behave more and more foolishly or worse and worse - incentives are too powerful a control over human cognition or human behavior. If you’re in one [of these systems], I don’t have a solution for you. You’ll have to figure it out for yourself, but it’s a significant problem.
@ak Like any parent, I experiment with my kids all the time. One of the most effective things I do when one of them has misbehaved is to acknowledge my child’s feelings and ask him what he was trying to achieve. Others at Ford might learn a lot by trying this in the workplace. Leadership and HR hate this simple trick because it makes it harder to ostracize subjects of hour.
With the performance review system competitive, you've got managers who've seen behind the curtain and understand force ranking better than a perhaps naive trench worker, and see that helping their coworkers is not as important as appearing better than their coworkers, and by extension, all of their efforts should be self-serving rather than for the good of the entire company...you get what you incentivize.
They are not stupid, they are very smart... but that does not mean they are honest or good people. They may also be leading you on since they are protected by the company for their manipulative behavior. Imagine two gamblers and two slot machines. One machine inexplicably pays off on every trial and another, a more usual machine, pays on an unpredictable, intermittent schedule.
Question:
Now, suppose that both devices suddenly stop paying. Which gambler will catch on first?
Answer:
The one who has been rewarded for each pull of the lever (continuous reinforcement) will quickly notice the change, while the gambler who has won only occasionally (on partial reinforcement) may continue playing unrewarded for a long time.
Question:
Who is the fool for playing the game to begin with before the devices suddenly stopped paying, leaving you holding the bag?
@ae Sometimes the solution to a behavior problem is simply to revisit incentives and make sure they align with the desired goal.
The heart and soul of the integrity of the system is that all the packages have to be shifted rapidly in one central location each night. And the system has no integrity if the whole shift can’t be done fast. And Federal Express had one he-l of a time getting the thing to work. And they tried moral suasion, they tried everything in the world, and finally somebody got the happy thought that they were paying the night shift by the hour, and that maybe if they paid them by the shift, the system would work better. And lo and behold, that solution worked.
@af I knew this sh-t was evil when i ended up in a workshop as an Intern on "personal branding", where this lady basically was teaching grown adults how to fake their personality to get things they want without having to do the work of being actual good human beings LOL
As a former Ford manager I can say a large part of the reason is there is nearly zero investment in developing managers (or people in general). It’s not an enterprise priority and it’s not measured (having it appear on PR twice a year is not measurement, it’s a paper exercise) — so it doesn’t happen. Efforts wax and wane but essentially pop up as token events. The entire system is perpetuated by people who are promoted because they were good at their non-leadership roles or are purely political animals - neither have any correlation to being good leaders. Few ever successfully make the transition to a good people leader. I only experienced 2-3 in 25yrs. You don’t have to look far for a prime example - Farley. Not a stupid man, but he’s a terrible people leader.
@ad Be careful about being in situations that motivate unhappy behavior. Are the incentives in the systems in which you operate motivating behaviors that make you a better person, or a worse person. Be careful if you think your answer is “neutral”…
Don’t work for those who you do not admire.
Never.
It will damage you.
They got 100 problems
The corporate mantra: If you can't do, manage. They have degrees and dirty knees. It's a club is all it is.
They like to watch others do things