Thread regarding SAP layoffs

@1a8+1ke6xa9hn email by M.Alam

@w1 Where has Gero's change of roles been communicated? I haven't heard anything about it.

@k9+1ke6xa9hn Did Rouven Morato from Business Transformation Management / Signavio got fired or he resigned after 21 years at SAP (as per his LinkedIn post)?
Also, Gero Decker has been decked out of his role as GM SAP Signavio P&E and replaced by Andre Wenz. Maybe he is now propped up under M. Alam for the next strategic role or just side lined? Thoughts?

@pw The benefit is mainly financial, the code quality became secondary...I'm not sure there will be senior developers in the future because they're the target of layoffs now and (some) companies want to replace them by AI because they think they are expensive and can replaced by AI.

This AI copilot is changing the way developers work, the first consequence is that developers don't talk to each other anymore...if they face a difficulty they discuss it with Copilot and fix it in their own without reviews, peer programming...etc.

No small talk either which will isolate them even more...pretty depressing

@m9 Studies show that due to the need to scrutinize AI coding line by line (LLMs are nothing but stochastic parrots that sp-t out all the dodgy code they were fed from Stack Overflow), developer productivity declines rather than increases.

Add to that the fact that LLMs replace junior developers, leading to a lack of senior developers a few years down the line, I cannot see any long-term benefit here.

@b7 with Vibe coding they can do the software dev roles. Its unbelievable what Claude software dev agents can do.

How many thousands in US to be laid off by April 15th? 2-3k?

The rich board gets richer....

@ka maybe they are not telling you because you're also on the list haha

@ka Microsoft wants to fire 20000 employees in 2026 because adding AI to their products did not pay off. SAP wants AI to be the only strategy so they will have to let go of a similar amount of employees if not more. AI capabilities in SAP products are not worth the price hike. Layoffs would be a perfect distraction for the executive board to keep the attention off the failed AI products and 20 million executive bonuses.

I know people close to the board, and no one mentioned layoffs so far.

@jr anyone who thinks there will be no layoffs is delusional. The stock price is tanking. And customers are very unhappy that SAP is forcing AI down their throats and increasing the product price by over 60%.

They are in conversations with the Betriebsrat to fire about 10% of the workforce in growth areas. They just fired Rouven Morato last week and he was heading GTM for Signavio, Leanix and Walkme. This time they are doubling down to lay off as many as possible and will focus on locations outside of Walldorf and Sankt Leon-Rot. And they will use the new 'performance management' to make this happen. Get prepared to have many development managers replaced by HRBP.

@jp I don't think there will be layoffs. You can play the same card only so often.

@at check the stock price. There will be massive layoffs - just not in Germany, France and any country with worker protections. Once the stock falls below 200, and it will if Q4 did not meet expectations, the bloodletting will commence.

Reorgs will be announced today. Reorgs are just a distraction from the coming layoffs.

@ee congrats. But I would say for the young professional, things aren't any better. No career path, no promotion chance. What you start with is what you get until one day you can't stand it anymore and quit yourself. Company doesn't need to pay you serverance, and the retention rate is "healthy". And no worries for new blood who want to crawl in for minimum wage.

@bp 'Old guys' on good salaries are being targeted for removal, albeit with a decent wedge as they leave. How do I know? I'm one of them. Frankly delighted to get away from the completely toxic mess, post Covid, that SAP has become.

@dg I‘m working in Chucks team. No one will be put on PIP. And no one will dare to do anything about it.

About 6% of SAP will be put on PIP in Q1.

@at SAP throws around the word “optimize” like all of the acronyms etc - but can never even define the OBJECTIVE FUNCTION of the optimization problem.

The stain of the Lloyd/Loretta era persists . They opened up a huge talent hole in North American sales.

Meritocracy was pushed aside by people who’ve never ever successfully sold software. They
Unleashed the woke scalpel and carved out all the talent.

I see what you're saying but I don't think that infighting is the problem. The infighting is likely restricted to those who blindly support and follow management and those who want issues at the company actually addressed.

The comment saying that we need to stop crying, move on, and take control of our lives may come across as insensitive but it is a brutal truth. Our employment scenario is best classified as a toxic relationship in which your partner has demonstrated many times that they are incapable of positive change. It's not easy, but you deserve better.

@bn a majority of the layoffs are focused on young professionals and mid-level experts. No area is laying off these “old guys” or anyone who is part of the “boys club” and makes a lot of money. The last layoff cost SAP €2,5 billion. It was a net loss in the long term for SAP. But it caused enough chaos for the old guys to promote each other by moving into different roles.

@ax I agree with you except for the stability

SAP used to be stable but it's no longer the case

There's this feeling that SAP just wants to get rid of the old guys and bring younger engineers who can do better using AI.

It's an illusion !

The old guys are necessary because they exist at customer side as well : they can talk to each other and they understand each other 😀

Stop crying already. Sap is not perfect and we have our share of problems but if you don’t like it move on. Stop crying. You are responsible for your own destiny, stop crying and take ownership of your lives.

@b7 it's a lie. There is no such thing as a people lead in Signavio and there never was. Every development manager in Signavio has at least ten years of software engineering experience. Some Signavio employees are spreading this fake news because they applied for development manager roles but did not get those jobs. So they feel that the interviews were rigged and as payback they are spreading these lies. Ask anyone in Signavio and your doubts will be cleared.

What about the news that HR employees are taking over development manager roles? Is there any truth to that? Is there anyone from Signavio who can share more information on this?

Unfortunately it is business and this is why they focus on the culture, to make you THINK you are getting paid fairly.

You want stable you stay at SAP, you want progress you go elsewhere.
Only 10% of employees are really progressing. Mainly sales and Customer Successs.
The rest are grinding through complexities and re-org changes.

Save your money and plan your exit strategy. If that is what you want.

Best of luck to you.

I don't think there is gonna be large layoff. More likely what they called "optimize" 1 to 2 percent.

You are correct.

Fortunately this site cannot do much harm. I doubt there are more than 10 or 12 SAP people around here.