SAP is under a lot of financial pressure and the only way to fix this is by mass layoffs. Basically, we are investing too much in stock buybacks, AI (data centers and development) and bonuses. The executive board wants to axe the last one and increased the first two. So the only solution is layoffs. Oracle fired 20000 people yesterday and SAP is supposed to follow suit to "remain at a competitive advantage". The new works council is already in negotiations regarding this. SAP wants 12000 layoffs worldwide of which 5000 will be in European hubs. But this is kept hush hush. I feel like speaking out because I am tired of these bull$hit games. The biggest problem here is middle management and executives who want more bonuses for themselves and want to use third party contractors instead of full-time employees. They are the ones pushing for the layoffs. So don't listen to your area executives when they say that times are rough. If SAP didn't insist on share buybacks or invest too much in AI that is not producing any results for customers, we would not have such a deficit. This narrative needs to be fixed. I am tired of our CEO, CFO, executives and middle management saying that employee salaries and bonuses are the third highest expense for SAP. That is a good thing and not a bad thing. Employees create and sell good software not AI. Some of the managers pushing for this already have salaries of more than €200000 per year and still want more. Say no to layoffs. Talk back to your manager if they want to give you a bad rating. If you have done the work, you should get good performance ratings. They want to use bad performance ratings to fire employees or pay them less.
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Why does the share price even matter, almost none of the shareholders beyond employees own primary shares so very very little have actually invested in the company. What should matter is are we profitable and are we keeping customers and growing
It is amazing how much market cap the company has lost in the last few months. I hope they are happy with the big 2024 layoffs because ultimately it did nothing, and the execs were quite happy to destroy employees' lives. I guess CK and DA will get rich regardless and never suffer the repercussions of their incredibly bad judgement. Honestly, what value have they brought for all their millions?
@1ee stock price has already back to 2020 level. I give them that they made a good story to lure in the investors, but you know investors patience also run out. Let's see how the story of AI sell. At the end, our product is stock isn't it.
SAP Share price today under 140 EUR. More than A THIRD of market value lost in the last 1 year.
Let's recap:
- Investors: NOT happy
- Employees: NOT happy
- Executive Board: anyway rich
The safe cut? Cut corporate marketing by 50%. You won’t notice they are gone.
@1ee You could be right here, but the other side of that coin is that 30K layoffs did nothing for Oracle's stock price.
If the share price plummets further - DA will do something drastic in a last ditch effort to boost the share price and he is a one trick pony so expect layoffs on a massive scale, unless the Q1 earnings report exceeds all expectations, which seems doubtful since Q1 is usually robbed of deals by the previous Q4....so buckle up, buttercup.
AI layoffs are coming to Thomas’ org. You simply can’t cut development by 50% via AI and pretend increasing order entry disproportionately is easily possible. Orgs like custom dev / cis have that problem the most.
@15d you’re kidding right? From a friend/T5 architect who left SAP for Oracle:
• TQMs let go on the spot even with customer severity-1s.
• List of people out the door. Access closed out in 5-min.
• Also bricked laptops … USB shut off. Could not upload history and personal files.
@se unfortunately it's the same situation in every major software company currently.
Everybody is too excited about AI that will produce code and make them a lot of easy money.
The problem is that the customers aren't buying it and they imagine how hard it will be to get a problem fixed without anybody to talk to...they see with the Cloud story and they can predict how it will be with Cloud + AI.
Did Oracle start consultation with their employees? At least in Europe we have a Consultation period and should be grateful of that (at least!).
@rr The alternative is that the supervisory board will grow a spine and hold the executive board accountable for all their action and cut their bonuses and fire them if they cannot achieve their OKRs. You know, like Performance Management for executives. And the Works Council can act as a defender of employees by saying no to layoffs using the money that the supervisory board saves through reducing executive bonuses.
Ah! Who am I kidding. Most of these are already bought for and everyone in the company is working hard to ensure that CK, DA and other executives get 10% of their net worth as annual bonuses every year even if they do not meet their personal targets and bad mouth employees at every turn. SAP is really a $hit place to work with because of the current a$5kissing management in each area.
@qg „Fist-oriented actors“, LOL.
It would be nice to have one of them discuss with CK and DA on behalf of the employees, though. Just a dream…
In reality, we are on our own. We cannot answer surveys honestly, otherwise the spurned managers would go after us. Even if we perform brillantly and do the needful, we can be chopped any minute.
Dreadful times, isn‘t it?
@nn Do not wish for layoffs. They are not planning to get rid of employees who do not contribute and only do politics. Most of these have been with SAP for more than 10 years and are very very well connected. They plan to get rid of acquired employees and employees who are hardworking but do not give very good ratings to their manager.
@q2 I can only guess…
„Bruce“ could be Bruce Willis, but he is still alive. Bruce Lee is a) dead, and b) acted in a movie with Chuck.
„Bud“ could be Bud Spencer.
All three are fist-oriented actors from a time when the boomers were young.
@jq Who is Bruce? Who is Bud?
Tbh I wish there is a layoff or reorg whatsoever in my org. So many people with nothing to do but playing politics. How long will it last?
@gj Yes understaffed and the leadership board want to squeeze as much time and stagnate our wages as much as possible. That's why collaboration is at its lowest because people are too focused now on individual KPIs with higher workloads. With all these headcount freezes it's so hard to get work done and off the ground. Someone retires, another takes that job for lower pay, and nobody picks up the work. And no additional hires so resources get thinned out.
End result is customers deleting SAP because of delays, failed AI innovations and understaffed issues. At the end of the day do customers like talking to bots? He-l no.
@jq Your HRBP will save you, you will get eternal peace.
Chuck is gone, Bruce is gone, Bud is gone… who can save us now?
@gx if results are poor enough, maybe an announcement of "restructuring" during earnings call?
@gj So True! Layoffs are always a leadership failure. They get paid the big bucks to steer the company to success, if they don't they should be held accountable. But sadly this never happens.
@gm after the executive board and supervisory board and HR have concluded negotiations with the new Works Council and a Works agreement is in place. It's hard to say but maybe after the Q1 results are announced. SAP is already burning money and running into a deficit. There is not enough money for share buybacks and AI investments. And the executive board wants its bonuses so if the stock price takes another big hit, they will lay off as many as they can. The CFO has been wanting to lay off 12000 employees and he keeps bringing that all the time.
If there's Layoff when do you think we may receive the communication?
No matter what anyone says, layoffs are ALWAYS a Leadership failure.
Most people are just doing what they are told and it is not their fault.
The leadership at SAP has one failure after another and gets a paid early retirement.
Just like the Trump administration is firing women such as Noem and Bondi because women are considered DEI candidates, the SAP executive board plans to fire Gina so it becomes an all white male board again. The ask comes directly from their bosses at Palantir.
@g8 we are not allowed to talk much during the blackout period but one can only assume that the executive board will blame the war, the market, the shareholders, the employees, the customers and everyone else for the performance they are supposed to present.
Q1 has closed. If it was weak then I would assume layoffs announced soon.
@f6 The main reason CK is unhappy with employees is because his bonus reduced from $19.8 million in 2024 to $16.24 million in 2025. If he wants to get over $25 million, he needs layoffs. And the supervisory board is not putting up any fight. In fact they are supporting this madness and share buybacks and other $tupid $hit.
@d8 Because HR are supposed to take over engineer manager roles according to HPOM. They already did this in many areas and now we have managers who don't know the difference between front-end or back-end and managers who think that pair programming is bad and managers who want to fire QA because they do not understand the concept of code coverage or smoke tests. HR is supposed to facilitate the layoffs and take over engineering manager roles. I would hate to have a People Lead as my manager some day.
Layoffs have zero to do with performance. You can exceed every metric, have great survey and 365 results, win awards and be recognised for your achievements by upper management - even be selected for winner's circle in a revenue enabling role - and still you can be subject to lay off. The only thing that will save you is politics - so learn to play the political game and make your boss think you are a loyal supporter of his or her career. Never take credit for anything, stay away from public recognition for your work, and always promote their career - especially if they are useless. SAP is nearing the end as a software giant and has nowhere to pivot, so like the last days of any empire, SAP execs will solely focus on enhancing their personal wealth while they can to ensure that they are insulated from SAP's steady decline. The employees are just cannon fodder - taking the blows from dissatisfied customers while not making budget or bonuses. We are just casualties of bad decision making on the executive and board level who easily could have seen the disaster coming - maintenance was gravy while you could get it but the salad days are firmly over. Funny how the execs always manage to extract personal wealth from the company no matter how their poor decision making led us to this precipice. CK and DA have managed, in one year, to decrease the stock price by over 42% and yet....they are still here and making their fat paycheck while plotting to take away yours.
@e9 It will be lower, and see how prices went below 160.
Stock price is moving towards 150 EUR again. There is no need for layoffs.
Why layoff never happens to those useless HR?
@b5 indeed layoffs are not directly connected to performance, but it is an instrument to make it easier and cheaper for the employer. This was just my point, not to pretend I am the authority regarding the topic. I am not a lawyer, perhaps you are. I went through a legal process and the documentation of my bad performance according to the manager but the evidence showing the opposite, helped me win the legal case against the employer. My advice, in a nutshell, do not let them fire you without any severance or compensation, and this new performance managent was established to save some money.
A very large restructing must be come to align the business with the de-emphasis on ECC migrations to Cloud ERP (S/4). Missing targets by $2 billion calls for a massive reduction of resources focused on Rise/Grow S/4. Now customers want to stay on ECC and put AI Agents on top so SAP will be adding resources to the AI and BDC topics. Wall Street is obviously expecting a huge reduction in headcount.
@b5 you’re correct in saying that layoffs aren’t related to performance. But at SAP layoffs aren’t even related to salaries and value that an employee brings. Long-term SAP employees who have salaries more than €200k per year will never be fired. And you have people leads who are managers with no industry knowhow who are trying to replace their employees with AI because they don’t want to lose their own jobs. At the end of the day, these layoffs are just to keep long-term SAP employees even if they are expensive and do not add value. And to get rid of anyone who is new at SAP or is not a German.
@a4 while that may be true, SAP wants to buy back shares worth €2,6 billion. The supervisory board already okayed it but we don’t have so much cash lying around so they have to do layoffs. They got the supervisory board to agree to layoffs as part of this buyback. In the past agreements, there was a clause that stated that SAP will buy back without risking the cash flow and so there were no layoffs and no buyback if there wasn’t enough money. Now the supervisory board has doubled down on wanting layoffs. So there’s not much that even the works council can do.
The highest priority is to use SAP’s cash for executive bonuses then for share buybacks and then for investment in AI and then anything else. Employees come last.
https://www.sap.com/investors/en/stock/share-buy-back/2026.html
@av Layoffs are not necessarily driven by current performance. Corporations will also assign a future value of the employee to the business. They can dump a highly rated employee and simply say that your position has been eliminated if they don’t see that employee as part of their future. I’ve never heard of anyone arguing their way out of a layoff because they did a great job of documenting their goals and accomplishments. If an employee got great at playing politics, that helps immensely, but simply showing good work isn’t a panacea.
Performance management is here to fire you easily. Refuse bad performance rates if you have done your job, document everything, including the changes of priorities and goals, do not let your goals be written by your manager entirely, they are setting unachievable metrics to achieve their goals. Do not operate in panic mood, but anticipate for what’s coming and protect yourself. Work with works council, they will try to negotiate with the employer but they should do more for your protection. Submit to compliance any irregularities particularly with manager behaviors and their performance evaluations. I lived all these situation, until a point I needed to act with legal representation. Stay safe and strong. Best!