Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

I take a 10 weeks off a year. I love it

Look around your team - are you more productive than two years ago? I'm not. My team isn't.

Companies know that people end up taking less PTO when they roll out an unlimited variation. VTO is no different!

California law doesn’t require employers to provide paid vacation time, but if they did, the state’s Labor Code require them to pay as wages any “vested” vacation time that a terminated employee had not used. In McPherson v. EF Intercultural Foundation, Inc., appeals court found the former employees were entitled to a payout based on 20 days of vacation per year.

The key problem with unlimited PTOs policy is that the company does not actually provide unlimited vacation time.

Testimony established the company expected the former employees to take about the same vacation time as corporate employees: two to six weeks.

The former employees showed they took an average of two weeks each year and never more than four weeks. The employees testified that it could be hard to take time off and still get their work done.

As such, the appeals court found the evidence supporting a finding that the company’s paid time off policy had an implied cap and was not truly an unlimited PTO policy.

The appeals court agreed explaining that “an employer cannot avoid section 227.3 by leaving the amount of vacation time undefined in its policy while impliedly limiting the time actually available”

@g7 this might be the most uninformed post ever. If you think you must keep your 401k in stocks then you have no idea what you're doing.

@dn

401k is a scam b/c of the rules. It forces me to keep money in the stock market (yes incl mutual funds, etfs, blah blah blah), which is a ludicrous place to keep money for retirement. I would much rather put that cash into alternate investments, e.g. direct real-estate owership, buy a business/private equity, or generally do whatever I want. I can't do that until I leave Cisco and roll it into a Self-Directed IRA where I have more freedom of choice.

401k a scam b/c it guarantees continued income for stock brokers, traders, and custodians, while also severely restricting what I can do with it, even as a sophisticated investor with double-digit annual returns in alternate investments with much lower risk than the stock market.

401k is a scam because it relies on a legalized ponzi scheme called 'the stock market'. How many retirees lost half their 401k in 2008, and who knows how many of those retirees had time to recover their balances over 2, 5, or 10 years? It is absurd to rely on such a system. At this point, I'd be more comfortable owning 100% bitcoin for retirement than any stock.

I'm guessing most people here have no idea what else is out there, and your opinions are based on blindness. Once you're eyes have been opened, the notion that your retirement is limited to 'the stock market' is laughable at best and fraudulent/negligent at worst.

Your response is predictable: 401k constraints exist to protect the vulnerable/less sophisticated investors. Ridiculous. If you're not financially literate, you can forget about ever retiring.

In general unlimited PTO means less PTO taken and less to pay out when performing large LRs. I know of exceptions in other places. I have a friend who's manager is in Europe and reminds them to take PTO with some frequency. But in general it only benefits the company.
Also I've noticed the managerial oversight and overhead regarding PTO has gone up. Calendars to track who's off. Stronger demands for coverage. Because it isn't your time anymore. It's charity.

It really depends on the company and manager. I've worked in companies that had normal PTO, and unlimited. Companies switch to unlimited PTO to cut costs. It's believed employees don't take enough PTO, so why pay them out when they leave the company?

However, if you use your PTO frequently and your boss doesn't try to deny your requests, unlimited PTO can be a good thing. Everyone has their sanity limits and requires a work/life balance that keeps them healthy and happy. Your personal health is a P1, it trumps everything else in life, never forget!

We see people taking more than 4 weeks a year off in PTO. This is how unlimited PTO SHOULD be used by employees.

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you only take a week off per year and your boss isn't preventing you from taking PTO, then you need to review your work/life balance and time management skills.

Never expect an employer to look out for your best interests, or matters that are important to you. That's your job. Whether it's Cisco or another company.

Sincerely,
Just another cog in the machine

Unlimited in PTO is a con word, misguided as benefit. No accrual and if you abuse, you get canned.

@d8
401K is the opposite of a scam. it is a path to financial independence.

choose a low cost fund or a target date fund and max it out. get the employer match and don't touch it.
when you get canned, DO NOT CASH IT OUT, but have your IRA provider roll the 401k into your IRA so you don't get taxed.

live well below your means.

unlimited pto isn't a scam

401k is a scam

Use it or lose it. Depends on your manager and team workload.
For us, it works well.

Unlimited PTO is Cisco following the latest HR trend.
They wrongly believed that they built up social credits by purchasing the scammy "best place to work" awards.

Unlimited PTO is a scheme to discourage time off and to remove PTO as an expense item. What was a significant benefit (Paid Time Off that accrues over time and paid upon exit from the company) is now a subtle dystopian hunger game.

you did not "earn" any time off or "accrue" any leave. you are now taking profits from the company every time you take it.

watch your back.

This is 100% down to your career stays and how you are managed. I'm old and have a chill manager so unlimited PTO totally rocks. If you're early in career with a micromanager it's probably 180 different.

Can I take 1 week off each month and get paid in full for the entire month (12 weeks/year)? If yes, then this is a good deal. Even better, can I make it 2 weeks off per month (i.e 6 months/year). Sign me up, mf!

It is a favor thing for the corporations period and that is all you need to know.

It was clearly a way to get that liability off of their books. I think people in general take less PTO now, but could just be my experience too.