We’ve got way too many managers just sitting around. Let’s be real - some layoffs wouldn’t hurt. I’m 100 percent here for it.
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@404 that is just weird and disturbing.
@404+1jr3dgjwm Way to boil a person down to two cherry picked (hopefully factual) moments.
I’m sure the same couldn’t be done about you…
A Manager found an intern who looked just like her when she was young. She offered the intern a job almost immediately into the internship. This same manager brought in her kid's fidget spinner toys to show off before making "shaker weight" gestures to a much younger direct report.
And these "Managers" determine who stays and who goes? It's disgusting.
The problem is that the people deciding who gets laid off will continue to be a sampling of the most awful office-politics cronies. They will reward their own and punish those with actual up-to-date skill and talent -- things that SAS management do not value and, honestly, don't even understand.
How bout all those directors with no direct reports? Problematic if you ask me.
it's similar out here in the real world, too, unfortunately.
What recent DevOps R&D layoff?
Your description of the layoff process resonates with my experience. SAS is an interesting lesson in politics and interpersonal networks.
A common trope in crime shows is the wall displaying criminal networks, roles, relationships, and connectivity. I imagined my peers had similar displays in their homes, or at least a software version of it.
"Person A hired Person B who hired Persons C, D, and E. Person E is a difficult person, but was hired at another job by Person Q, who is friends with a founder's child; befriend Person E, be deferential to Person Q. Persons C, D, and E will defer to Person B, and by extension, Person A...." And so on, for every division the employee interacts with.
At layoff time, it feels like target selection has little to do with objective performance, and everything to do with political connectivity.
Add "secret love children" to that mix.
"SAS has consistently rewarded toxic managers for creating a toxic culture..."
Amen. Amen, amen, amen.
@bt+1jr3dgjwm
And that would be great, if layoffs would target the people at SAS who, frankly, don't deserve their jobs, but that's not what happens. Targeted firings, like those that took place in DevOps R&D recently, are called layoffs but they're not. They're indistinguishable from layoffs because layoffs at SAS are what happens when someone gets an order to reduce headcount due to changing economic conditions and some manager with an axe to grind, friends to protect, or a work wife gets to choose who to let go.
SAS has consistently rewarded toxic managers for creating a toxic culture since the austerity measures began in 2017 or so. The only thing that has any hope of returning the company to anything approaching a functioning engine of enterprise is to implement a fair layoff, and gut management. Hopefully that's what the consultants are doing, and hopefully Goodnight realized this was the problem and that's why he brought them on board.
@ee+1jr3dgjwm Because JMP is a subsidiary, we can know its expenses, except for those it shares with SAS.
The cost of offices, cafe, gym, HCC, etc. can all be estimated. So I believe the person who told me that JMP is profitable.
For any SAS product that is not a subsidiary, of course, your argument is quite valid.
"I've been told, by a high source, that JMP is "nicely profitable", but I don't know its profit margin."
IMO your source likely has more knowledge of JMP than s/he has in accounting and finance. It would shock the he-l out of me if whatever home grown accounting scheme SAS uses can accurately track and identify expenses associated with JMP(or any other area of SAS).
No idea of expenses for a product = no idea of said product's profit.
@dx+1jr3dgjwm You are correct. I reported accurate sales, which per employee are higher for JMP than for SAS. But sales don’t imply profits.
I've been told, by a high source, that JMP is "nicely profitable", but I don't know its profit margin.
Two totally different conversations about JMP are happening.
One concerns gross sales. The other concerns profit.
Gross sales numbers are much easier to truthfully report. The same can not be said about profit.
“JMP also doesn’t have the same expenses as SAS (offices, cafe, gym, HCC), so are those numbers accurate?”
All SAS products use the offices, cafe, gym, and HCC. If JMP were a separate company, it would have to pay for its own facilities. But that’s also true of Risk, Fraud, Viya, and every other SAS product.
“Until SAS has a fully baked GAAP system, any speculation about JMP or any other area of SAS being profitable, is just wishful thinking that may or may not be true.“
GAAP will deliver accurate numbers for SAS as a whole. But as others have observed, SAS Sales folks are allowed to bundle SAS products and credit sales to whichever products they choose. That means we can’t get accurate numbers for most individual products.
JMP has its own Sales and Marketing department. JMP sales are not bundled with other SAS products.
So although we can’t get accurate numbers for most individual products, we can compare JMP sales to SAS sales as a whole. Those numbers are accurate.
"JMP also doesnt have the same expenses as SAS (offices, cafe, gym, hcc) , so are those numbers accurate?"
Until SAS has a fully baked GAAP system, any speculation about JMP or any other area of SAS being profitable, is just wishful thinking that may or may not be true.
JMP also doesnt have the same expenses as SAS (offices, cafe, gym, hcc) , so are those numbers accurate?
We already talked about this in https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1jnh6wcr1
Oh, I think it's coming. We'll be taking a page right out of the Elon handbook when he went in and cut middle management and flattened the hierarchy at X/Twitter.
@b7+1jr3dgjwm I know that because I worked at SAS Institute. The numbers aren’t secret; all you need is a friend in the JMP Division.
SAS revenues are ~$3B, with ~12,000 employees, that is ~$250K per employee.
JMP revenues are ~$150M, with ~500 employees, that is ~$300K per employee.
That’s why JMP will not be cut: it is improving the average.
"JMP is more profitable than most of SAS."
Amd you know that how?
The Art Department is not intended to be profitable. It is the CEO's charity.
JMP is more profitable than most of SAS.
Neither of them will be cut.
Cut headcount in the Art Department and JMP to demonstrate seriousness.
Reduce middle management & reduce the bureaucracy.