Thread regarding SAS Institute layoffs

"E was renovated in 2019 right before Covid and has been vacant since 2022ish"

Forget about office space leasing. Offices are a relic of the past. Housing is hot however! So...

Repurpose those empty buildings into HIGH end condos. Minimum size 2b 2bath. Pent houses on top floor. Already have plenty of parking spaces! Nice green space between buildings and great walking trails.

As SAS fades more and more buildings come online to get repurposed.

Condos would sell as fast as Viya did not.

I bet James Jr has eyes on this site....

To those asking about if any of the empty buildings have been refurbished. E was renovated in 2019 right before Covid and has been vacant since 2022ish.

Unmotivated sellers attract fewer interested buyers.

“One of the most difficult things for a seller to do is to view their for sale items through the lens of a buyer.”

Excellent point. We can’t know for sure, but I don’t believe that “bundling” prevented a sale. Potential buyers are experienced at both ki-ling off and selling off parts of an acquisition. Broadcom is currently doing both with VMWare.

A simpler explanation is that Broadcom and SAS disagreed on price. After the deal failed, unnamed sources said that the price under discussion was $15-20B. SAS may have asked that price; I doubt Broadcom offered it.



https://thenewstack.io/why-broadcom-is-ki-ling-off-vmwares-standalone-products/



https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/26/kkr_vmware_euc_acquisitioj/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/broadcom-in-talks-to-buy-software-firm-sas-11626103731

Keep in mind that the most valuable asset to a buyer is the declining V9 revenue stream. That cash cow can be milked awhile longer before making hamburger. A buyer will likely view all the other stuff as having little or no value and their offer will reflect that. Therefore, it makes financial $en$e to unload the "junk" separately. Sell the junk for whatever it will fetch separately. Again, it has no value or appeal to a buyer who wants the v9 milk cow.

One of the most difficult things for a seller to do is to view their for sale items through the lens of a buyer...

Could bundling have been a reason the Broadcom deal fell through?

@6itv+1tBbsucF "...A buyer may want SAS but not JMP."

It would seem to me to be the other way around. JMP could be purchased for much less than the much larger SAS. JMP is standalone analytical software that is useful and (as far as I know) profitable and growing. Selling it first seems like a better idea.

“Non germane products such as JMP and others are more of a hindrance than a help regarding the efforts to sell SAS.”

That depends on the buyer.

Companies like Broadcom or private equity would purchase SAS for its declining but valuable revenue stream. They might pay $5-10B for SAS V9, and cancel or spin off JMP, Viya, and the new AI products that don’t fit their business model.

An IPO would be sold to the general public, who might like that JMP and Viya sales are increasing, and think the new AI stuff looks pretty cool.

If it were mine, I’d explore both alternatives and sell to the highest bidder.

@6gtq+1tBbsucF

I learned long ago that even a broken clock is right twice a day, and to not let DB's constantly tell me I'm wrong.

"Nobody really gives a sh-t what you think. But when you say stuff in a group you should be held to some standard. Some people do this by themselves, Others spew BS."

Get over yourself.

“Is the 'Thought Cop' happy?”

Not sure which thought cop you are talking about.
In any case I think “BS cop” is more accurate.

Nobody really gives a sh-t what you think. But when you say stuff in a group you should be held to some standard. Some people do this by themselves, Others spew BS.

"A buyer may want SAS but not JMP."

That statement applies especially to JMP but not just to JMP. Shed all factions that are not germane to the SAS brand. Non germane products such as JMP and others are more of a hindrance than a help regarding the efforts to sell SAS.

Smart choice adding “ But then again, I made all the above up, so who knows what's real or not.” at the end since you were mostly wrong.

@6mhb+1tBbsucF

JMP has become a subsidiary. It has its own HR department, its own Legal department, etc.

I’m sure you’re correct, that there are still some shared services. But JMP can be separated. As you say, that requires discipline and organization.

This is probably more likely, and more attractive, to a buyer, rather than the seller. A buyer may want SAS but not JMP.

Selling SAS Campus real estate...don't be daft. That's perpetual rental income and a wealth asset to borrow against. It may sit fallow for now to appease JG's vanity, but it won't once he passes on.

"Correct. JMP can be easily separated from SAS."

Not so fast. Having worked at other large companies, those companies have internal budgets and billing for shared and interdepartmental services. I've never heard of such a thing at SAS. Maybe those structures exist, and those practices occur, maybe they don't. I've never heard SAS managers express any concern over budgets, unless they were at high level.)(GASP!)

Separating both SAS and JMP requires that shared services be either separated for billing or renegotiated based on fractional usage (e.g. benefits packages, HR, maintenance, etc.). That requires organization and discipline.

Not going to happen in the Montessori culture of that organization, at least not until one or more of the dudes move to the great beyond. But then again, I made all the above up, so who knows what's real or not.

(Is the 'Thought Cop' happy?)

"we know there is a steady 3 billion that is profitable"

"Profitable? IIRC SAS reports only gross revenue and does not report profit. If that is not correct, where are the profit numbers posted?"

When the powers-that-be give the "Year End Update" presentation, only revenue and "growth" are mentioned. Costs and profit are never mentioned. You have to take them at their word regarding profit.

Correct. JMP can be easily separated from SAS.

JS cannot be easily separated. JG cannot afford to.buy him out — not without selling real estate or some other asset he does not want to sell.

A sale of the company is the only cost-effective way that both men and their heirs can separate their combined ownership of SAS.

"JS has no choice. He owns 1/3 of SAS. To buy him out would require a check bigger than JG can write."

One solution is to sell JMP separately. That would cleanly unwind it from SAS.

"Show me a single post on here where anyone (even a single person) has said they think a big payday is coming."

Exactly! So much made up BS here :-)

@6tus+1tBbsucF They really don’t report anything yet. But internally there are references to profitability alongside gross revenue. You don’t hear it as much anymore but now and then. We know it is less than 10%.

But either way it still has value and will ultimately be sold (or less likely IPO).

"we know there is a steady 3 billion that is profitable"

Profitable? IIRC SAS reports only gross revenue and does not report profit. If that is not correct, where are the profit numbers posted?

@6nsv+1tBbsucF Get a grip!

“Keep telling yourself your big payday's coming, whatever gets you through another month here”

Show me a single post on here where anyone (even a single person) has said they think a big payday is coming.

Your phrasing implies you still work at SAS. Why would you do that if you feel so miserable? Chase your dream instead of pi----g on everything.

“Nobody is buying this declining company or investing in it. It's almost funny to see people actually believe it will happen. You true believers obviously know nothing about how IPO works”

Of course somebody is buying this company. How can you believe it won’t? Despite all the BS on here we know there is a steady 3 billion that is profitable. That has value. Period.

You do realize that a sale and an IPO are different things right? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt even though post makes it questionable.

Of course the company will be bought. All software companies get bought, except for the very biggest such as Microsoft and Google.

A $3B annual revenue stream is worth at least $5B. Selling the company is the only way to realize that value.

We don’t know when a sale will happen, or whether it will be private or an IPO. But of course a sale will happen.

It’s true that no big payday is coming for employees. But no one promised that.

Oh please. Nobody is buying this declining company or investing in it. It's almost funny to see people actually believe it will happen. You true believers obviously know nothing about how IPO works. Keep telling yourself your big payday's coming, whatever gets you through another month here.

“JS seems happy enough to continue to ride on JG's coat tails. Otherwise JS would have cut the umbilical cord from SAS and would have taken JMP solo.”

JS has no choice. He owns 1/3 of SAS. To buy him out would require a check bigger than JG can write.

It is one reason for a sale, to give both owners liquidity, to cleanly separate their ownership stakes into inheritances for their children.

The heirs have not “distanced themselves from both men”, but from their company. Only one heir works at SAS. This is sensible, given its decline and likely sale. Most of their inheritance will be in real estate, not in software.

From its beginning, SAS was set up in two companies, one in real estate, one in software. This was a brilliant business decision that facilitates the sale.

The likely buyers of SAS are private equity, or companies like BroadCom. They know exactly how to maximize profit from declining revenue streams. It’s their business model.

Such companies may not want real estate, or may want only part of it. Now SAS is positioned to sell them whatever they want.

SAS campus, like Prestonwood and Chatham Park, is a long-term investment. The commercial real estate market is terrible right now, but it won’t always be. These are not liabilities, but smart bets on the continued growth of Research Triangle.

None of the heirs fit into DEI categories and therefore cannot get hired.

"How do you know that his heirs have distanced themselves from both men?"

Do any of the heirs actually have a real job at SAS?

SAS campus will eventually become NC State North Campus.

"Close the buildings and refurbish them. "

Are any of the closed buildings (being) are refurbished?

"Will build to suit"

RTP area is one of the faster growing areas in the nation. Yet vacant office buildings on a beautiful campus at a choice location remain vacant.

Thus, it is logical to conclude that repurposing COULD BE in the future of the SAS HQ campus.

"Close the buildings and refurbish them. "

Are any of the closed buildings are refurbished?

Oh come on. The campus isn't going to be chopped up into mega lots for the wealthy. Buildings need maintenance and they are on a depreciation schedule. They need to be refurbished. Close the buildings and refurbish them. Then move employees around as necessary to refurbish the other buildings as necessary on their depreciation schedules.

Look at how the place was laid out. It was intended to be a business park of sorts, regardless of the tenants. The NC State Centennial Campus, in my opinion, has a similar feel to it (too similar, in my opinion).

“Heirs are total hands off with respect to SAS and seem to have distanced themselves from both men.”

How do you know that his heirs have distanced themselves from both men?

From my vantage point your heirs have completely distanced themselves from you. I mean I’ve never seen you talking.

Oh wait I haven’t the first clue what your relationship with you heirs are. Regardless of how much I indicate otherwise anonymously.

Keep the BS flowing.

"I can't bear the thought of SAS campus being chopped up into multiple big estate lots/mega mansions for the super wealthy".

Mega mansions would look better than acres of hot empty asphalt parking lots having weeds growing in the sun cracked pavement. Plus, that give the heirs more to add to their coffers.

Having said that, I doubt the heirs care one bit what you or I think. Take it one step further: the heirs have a different outlooks than Jim and John concerning SAS. Evidence? Heirs are total hands off with respect to SAS and seem to have distanced themselves from both men.

Unless SAS sells before JG dies, the heirs will decide the future of SAS. JS seems happy enough to continue to ride on JG's coat tails. Otherwise JS would have cut the umbilical cord from SAS and would have taken JMP solo.

"How many acres is SAS Campus? What would be the value if it was repurposed into 5-20 acre high end estate home lots? The above is just one idea of what heirs might have as a vision for SAS."

Don't make me cry, the idea is sacrilegious and I can't bear the thought of SAS campus being chopped up into multiple big estate lots/mega mansions for the super wealthy. Granted, the idea is not too far- fetched seeing that his son is into real estate investments like development and construction of properties. Location is prime.

the land has tremendous value. the buildings and the people, not so much.

we're talking about someone who owns multiple multimillion dollar jets which cost millions just to operate and maintain. he's not sweating a few empty buildings. they'll be on a minimal maintenance schedule and kept locked. nbd.

How many acres is SAS Campus? What would be the value if it was repurposed into 5-20 acre high end estate home lots? ! Paved roads, utilities and gated!!! Location location location!!

The above is just one idea of what heirs might have as a vision for SAS.

Thinking about what the heirs want is probably a better way of accurately predicting the future of SAS. While I have no idea of what the heirs want, there have been no indications that ANY OF the heirs have any interest in a software company. Especially a software company spiraling downward as that is a major headache.

Vacating a building is step one to demolishing it...

the real estate (excluding all the international assets) is surely not worth 5-10 billion. but it is also surely ever growing in value.

My understanding is all the campus real estate is owned by JG and then leased to SAS on a yearly basis. The fewer buildings SAS occupies, potentially the lower the rent.