Thread regarding Oracle Corp. layoffs

Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's The Update

Over the past month, several of us have been able to piece together some of what is transpiring, despite the fact that our workgroup is not based in the US. Some of this remains rumour, but much is already confirmed and underway. Oracle is, as always, slow to address any of this internally or externally, but rest assured Trained Oracle Spin Monkeys are working overtime to hone their razor-sharp messaging, and a glorious onslaught is planned for January.

Confirmed: Solaris 12 is dead. Some (not all) of the newer Solaris work will be pushed into Solaris 11 "dot releases", starting with 11.4 next year. Solaris priorities going forward: support Cloud, ZFS and ZFSSA, and other tactical initiatives. OpenStack support is relegated now to 'client-only', and Docker will likely never come to fruition in Solaris. General-purpose Solaris and general-purpose SPARC-based server systems are now second-level priorities; expect both to trail off over the next two to three years.

Attempting to shove partially-cooked, disparate pieces of an unfinished major OS release into a minor OS release will be, as can be expected, messy. Full of sound and fury, signifying restructuring, and the continuing gnashing of teeth is full-tilt this weekend, even as this is written.

Confirmed: The successor to the SPARC S7 chip (codenamed 'Sonoma Next' or 'S8') has been shelved indefinitely, as have plans for any systems based on that chip. Current S7-based systems will continue to be sold for now.

Confirmed: SPARC M8 and M9 chips are unaffected for now, and systems based on those are still on schedule - just expect fewer models and fewer options. Expect M-series chips to power the tiny Solaris corner of Oracle's Cloud, not S-series.

Confirmed: Linux "two dot oh" (including Linux on SPARC) was given the go-ahead by Mssr Fowler last month; it will provide the basis for all Oracle Public Cloud "control planes" going forward; Solaris "guest VMs" are still planned as of this writing.

Confirmed: Engineered Systems continue on, to eventually be folded into OPC as Cloud Machines and then Cloud Services.

Still Unclear: The future of Oracle's X86-based systems. Lively execu-level debate on this topic continues, apparently.

Confirmed: Systems customers and 'partners' (see below) will soon be told that they need to (read this in Ahnold's voice) Get Their Asses to the Oracle Cloud. Or else.

Confirmed: Systems' priorities going forward: 1) Cloud, 2) Cloud, 3) Cloud, 4) ZFSSA, 5) Solaris 11 "dot releases", 6) Updating everyone's CV

Confirmed: Systems' hardware and software partners will only be seen as important to Oracle in tactical situations. Or if they resell our products. All right, all right, to be honest what we just stated has been true since Oracle bought Sun, but now Oracle won't try to pretend quite so much. We think.

Confirmed: There are four classes of employee in Systems as of this week: 1) Notified they are probably 'safe' for the moment; 2) Pushed to relocate to other parts of Oracle; 3) Already notified of termination (several China-based Solaris groups, for example); 4) Totally in the dark (meaning that they are likely on the lists turned over to HR this week for termination next month). We have also heard of several key Solaris engineers who have already chosen to leave Oracle of their own accord.

Confirmed: Morale in Oracle Systems Division is at an all-time low. Outside the US (where things can develop much more slowly), we're mostly in the dark and apprehensive. "Continue with your assigned duties," we're told. These are not cheerful times around the office. Concern, anger, hopelessness and confusion all smoulder close to the surface. The most likely scenario at this point has targeted employees not being informed of their demise for at least another 3-5 weeks, so Happy Christmas to us all!

Still Unclear: The extent of near-term terminations. The fifty percent figure actually seems a bit high to us at present, although perhaps the sum of layoffs plus attrition plus reassignment could come close to that. Some organisations will be eliminated, while others are likely to be virtually unaffected for now. Check back with us next summer, won't you?

By the by, in case anyone was curious about something Mssr Hurd failed to mention during Thursday night's earnings call, Oracle Q2 hardware revenue was off another 10% (year over year) to US$1B. In case the "Why" component of all this remains in doubt.

We miss you, Scott.

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| 111371 views | | 148 replies (last December 4, 2018) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+KTCW4qz

148 replies (most recent on top)

In sw. How much of hw team is expected to be cut in jan? Sounds like everyone is coming to terms with this. It sounds like everyone expects it all tone cut but 50% is not all. What site is got the most to lose?

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Post ID: @5fdl+KTCW4qz

5kus, I don't know what your issue is with Oracle but the reality is that most Oracle employees are more than happy with the company. The years since Oracle bought Sun have been the most stable since the 90s with no 6 monthly RIF cycle to fear. Oracle brought credibility to Sun products for 5+ years reversing a lot of what the ponytail did.

Why is it an issue that Oracle RIF's 50% of a company they buy? They get rid of SG&A which is duplicate to the functionality Oracle already has so it would make no sense to have the overlap. This is why Oracle rung a profit from Sun in the early years as those cost centers were gone. It is the right thing to do as they're cost centers.

You should think of Oracle as a holding company for the different components they buy. The original product is still the database. As to the innovation aspect, nobody innovates much so trying to beat Oracle with that metric is nonsensical.

What Oracle does better than most is make profit. They don't bleed red every quarter or any quarter, like Sun did. If Sun only kept products that returned a PROFIT then they'd be better for it but they didn't which is why ponytail failed in the end. When Larry bought Sun all he did was get rid of SG&A and unprofitable bits of the business. He left Systems to itself to make money but that's not happening is it? He didn't touch the Systems org much in 2010 but that's changing now.

Good luck to all those still in Systems.

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Post ID: @5vzd+KTCW4qz

A lot of hate for Sun by Oracle folks, as the Software folks blame the Hardware for Oracle's revenue decline. Reminder that of last quarter, Software was down 20%, and Hardware down 10%. Neither is good, but Hardware is only like what, 15-20% of Oracle's total revenue stream. The Software losses are a much larger drag on overall numbers right now, to put things into perspective.

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Post ID: @5siq+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-5kvr Oracle makes $$ (sometimes) for its stockholders, and has little interest in employee satisfaction and innovation. Sun Microsystems occupied (for much of its life) a place diametrically opposite on those axes. It is what it is.

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Post ID: @5ghd+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-5kus:

You're showering praise on Oracle as being this super-efficient and enviable center of technical innovation and professional excellence. Why don't you read Oracle's employee reviews at Glassdoor? They all concur: Oracle is one of the most toxic and borderline unbearable work environments this world has ever seen. A festering hive of c---roach-mentality, sociopathic managers who take a free license in abusing employees in any which way they can think of.

To those of you who will get RIF'ed in January: consider yourselves lucky. There is a world outside of Oracle, and it's not bad. You will likely end up getting paid better than the droppings Oracle's management deigned to throw at you, while getting themselves rewarded handsomly for being patently incompetent at their own jobs.

What did Oracle ever innovate, or invent? Btrfs? What's that? Yet another half-baked filesystem nobody ever asked for? Anyone uses it? Oracle Enterprise Linux? It's a RedHat copy. Anyone uses it? Relational databases? There are many others, and there always were others. With or without Oracle DB, the world would have been able to store their data in tables, columns and rows just as well.

Why don't you ask Oracle's customers how much they would be willing to pay to get rid of Oracle, and move on to something better? PostgreSQL and MariaDB - Free and Open Source Software - are eating Oracle's cash cow, and it's fun to watch.

The only thing that Oracle is good at is bilking its customers for ever-increasing license fees - rent - for software acquired from other companies. Not that Oracle ever does anything to evolve the software they acquire: they gobble-up a company, RIF more than 50% of its employees, then destroy its products. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'll give Oracle one more thing, though: they make Microsoft look decent by comparison.

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Post ID: @5kvr+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-5ovk : OMC -- presumably Oracle Management Cloud. It's the cloud for your cloud!

Oracle is heavily into WTF TLAs. Better than "ZDLRA", I guess.

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Post ID: @5che+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-5kus

Rank and file employees are pretty much at the mercy of Oracle management. The support s---s, no parts, no real meaningful work...just learning to manipulate spreadsheets to stay employed. Very sad, no one cares anymore. They just care about looking better on paper than their peers.

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Post ID: @5kti+KTCW4qz

The only ex-Sun people who didn't adapt to the culture of Oracle are those who didn't do any real work anymore. Oracle doesn't have any time for ICs who don't deliver and this pissed off a lot of DEs and senior staff engineers who all got reset to IC4s. Those are the ones who fled early on and b--ched the most. Good riddance to those overinflated egos. The rank and file of Sun didn't care as they still kept doing their same role and still do.

It's sad the rank and file are getting RIF'd as they were the lifeblood of Sun. FWIW, the ponytail is the one who is singularly responsible for destroying Sun. Him with his stupid idea to open source everything. What a disaster that was where you measure downloads as being worth more than actual revenue.

Good luck to all the rank and file still there in 2017.

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Post ID: @5kus+KTCW4qz

@5fal - there's a reason God knows he's not LE!

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Post ID: @5hki+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-5vdz:

Oracle never wanted Sun's hardware. They only wanted MySQL - for obvious reasons, and Java - so they can sue Google. The money Oracle was hoping to extract from suing Google was going to pay for the Sun acquisition.

Oracle wanted a two-way deal with HP. HP was going to get Sun's hardware division. HP wasn't interested, so Oracle got stuck with it. The first Exa machines were built on HP hardware.

The Oracle acquisition of Sun was never going to work. The two companies' cultures are incompatible with each other. Sun always was an innovative R&D shop that occasionally made money. Oracle did not, and does not believe in R&D. Oracle is a mergers and acquisitions company, pretending to be a technology company.

In hindsight, the best option for Sun, back in 2009, would have been not to sell itself to Oracle, but try surviving on its own. The economy was very bad back then, but it was very bad for everyone. Sun doing badly on its own in 2009 wouldn't have been any different than anybody else doing badly in 2009.

Unfortunately, Sun blew its cash reserves on stupid acquisitions that didn't add any revenue cushion to Sun's bottom line: Cobalt and StorageTek.

Also in hindsight, Sun should have bought SuSE Linux, and should have produced and sold a viable, production-quality Linux distro for SPARC. Just as RedHat makes solid money on Linux Intel, Sun could have made money on Linux SPARC.

Sun chose not to do that, because of the oversized egos in the Solaris Organization, and out of a paranoid fear that having a Linux SPARC distro would destroy the Solaris SPARC business. The Solaris Organization blindly refused to see the reality at the time: that Solaris SPARC customers were fleeing to Linux Intel, the Solaris SPARC business was shrinking, and Sun had nothing to offer.

Sun's history consists of too many strategic and tactical mistakes, for too long of a time. It's not Oracle that destroyed Sun. Sun destroyed itself by living in a delusional bubble for much too long.

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Post ID: @5yjj+KTCW4qz

Right on, LE is a d...h... who surrounds himself with other d...h...s

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Post ID: @5cfh+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-5fal

And that's why Sun lost so much money and sold itself to Oracle. Oracle is the new owner and you have to follow it's rules and regulations. Sun was a badly managed company, no fiscal discipline. We all should be grateful to Oracle. I do still see a lot of ex-Sun b---s---s going on at Oracle till these days.

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Post ID: @5yid+KTCW4qz

Scott was a much more inspiring leader than Larry. He would talk to anyone in the company. You could send him an email and get a response. I remember his WSUN radio broadcasts that always opening with "Hi gang . ... .". He came around the Burlington office stopping at desks to say hello. I got to shake his hand, and saw just how short he actually was when not in hockey skates. Larry only talks to the people he feels are most important, i.e. the ones that are making him big money. This is no secret.

I also recall the stern instructions from our Director during our first staff meeting after the Sun sale closed which consisted of: "Don't make waves. Don't challenge policies. NEVER challenge management. DO NOT ASK FOR A RAISE. This is no longer SUN and dissent is no longer welcome. You have been warned." It was surreal.

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Post ID: @5fal+KTCW4qz

Oracle did not buy Sun out of charity, it bought Sun because it needed the HW expertise for the XaaS business - how do you think it would have developed Exa and the XaaS DCs without X-Sun people! Now it's getting rid off products and people it doesn't need for the XaaS business going forward. No free ride there pal.

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Post ID: @5vdz+KTCW4qz

@5waf: "the company that tried to resurrect Sun"

Oracle bought Sun, the intent -in the short and long term- is something that is up for debate.

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Post ID: @5syh+KTCW4qz

@AD-HOC: What is OMC group? Something under Solaris/HW org?

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Post ID: @5ovk+KTCW4qz

Seriously?! "Miss you Scott." How about "Thank you Oracle for a free ride." Sun died and Oracle kept it on life support for too long. I've been laid off before and it s---s, but trash talk about the company that tried to resurrect Sun after it's self imposed ruin is unprofessional and unproductive. I knew about this lay off 3 years ago ... what did you really think was going to happen?!

Sun did NOT buy Oracle. Let go of the ego.

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Post ID: @5waf+KTCW4qz

There have been some ad-hoc RIF's in the OMC group. Mostly marketing types and a few managers and sales people here and there. Lots of empty headcount that is not being replaced with any speed. Looks like as people leave they are not replaced.

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Post ID: @4qkt+KTCW4qz

might be they just want proceed with Solaris numbering 11.xx just like MacOS 10.xx?

sorry, bad joke...

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Post ID: @4boa+KTCW4qz

-4vfy

Will te other teams get cut? What's the estimated number in hw RIF?

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Post ID: @4ukh+KTCW4qz

I can report that several of JF's groups underwent the previously-reported "move key engineers to safe groups in Oracle" fire drill over the past two weeks. No clue when these transfers will hit the books, but they're already essentially done. Very hush-hush and clumsily executed, I'm told.

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Post ID: @4vfy+KTCW4qz

What about sparc?

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Post ID: @4owu+KTCW4qz

@4kuu You'll have to wait until 2017 to find out the answer to that one. Happy Holidays!!

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Post ID: @4tak+KTCW4qz

What does it mean for layoffs? Who'll be needed, who won't?

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Post ID: @4kuu+KTCW4qz

Well guys, it's official now, yesterday I got an email from my Director, basically it's confirming that Solaris 12 is dead as a brand and from now on, all the releases will be 11.x like.

The email is also mentioning Oracle's commitment with Solaris and the product will be alive at least until 2031 (yeah right... ¬¬)

It looks like this is the beginning of the end for Solaris.

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Post ID: @4ukw+KTCW4qz

Smart thing to do, why be a stupid sailor and drown?

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Post ID: @4iml+KTCW4qz

The rats have started jumping ship!

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Post ID: @4rvt+KTCW4qz

@KTCW4qz-3mvg

It makes total sense if you look at the top and recognize the (((pattern)))

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Post ID: @3uxi+KTCW4qz

Hi Oracle folks,

Cloudera in Palo Alto, San Francisco (CA) and Austin (TX) is hiring for many roles. We also have roles in EMEA and APAC. We are an #awesome company, growing, and pre-ipo :) Check us out! https://jobs.jobvite.com/cloudera/jobs

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Post ID: @3nra+KTCW4qz

Except that they're keeping the highest paid and most useless ones: mh and sc at $40M - $55M a year. Most companies have 1 CEO and don't have an overpaid cTO/ exec chairman at some $70m per year. Talk about pissing shareholders' money away

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Post ID: @3mvg+KTCW4qz

"getting high paid exsun off the books"

kind of sums it all up for me... that's my line of thinking too..

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Post ID: @3xnb+KTCW4qz

@ Anarchy in the Oracle - finally someone gets it ! There is no future

In England's dreaming

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Post ID: @3rhg+KTCW4qz

@3nlm is incorrect

@3zch is correct

Cheers.

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Post ID: @3zex+KTCW4qz

-3nlm

BS that's not how they are doing this. It's by function and if hey can be utilised elsewhere. They want to reduce cost by getting high paid exsun off the books.

Visa people may or may not be impacted.

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Post ID: @3zch+KTCW4qz

from what i understand and am privy to, due to political realities, emphasis is being placed on retaining US citizen teams.. Remote and H1b/L1 teams are top targets for cutting.

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Post ID: @3nlm+KTCW4qz

@2lit and @2apx - me three. I want them to just get it over with.

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Post ID: @3rqj+KTCW4qz

@3qyc Great Britain has 75 systems employees as of tonight, Ireland has 56. You have a good chance of right.

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Post ID: @3ffj+KTCW4qz

@1ddg - Clearly an Irishman, not a Brit. Clearly.

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Post ID: @3qyc+KTCW4qz

@2apx - I feel the same. Just let me go please, get it over with

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Post ID: @2lit+KTCW4qz

This post is as accurate as anyone can imagine. Except that i am still in the dark about my future , probably that means i am out of job in a few weeks :(

But nothing wrong to say about Oracle/SPARC. They have employed me for years, and this is a business decision. I only wish they would courtesy tell folks like myself if i am on the to-go list. But, perhaps HR/labor laws don't allow that.

Wish me and all the other folks about to go off good-luck.

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Post ID: @2apx+KTCW4qz

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