Thread regarding SAP layoffs

https://despair.com/products/leaders-burden

Ask that question to Punit Renjen and Hasso

For those wondering about the extravagance of winner’s circle, just google on youtube to get an idea.

https://youtu.be/779ZagB6a7I

Last year I started applying for jobs outside SAP in Fortune 100 companies and most of the job portals which once used Successfactors are now using Workday. You can see it from the URL. Slow and gradual erosion of big loyal customer base.

Who goes first? Etosha or Ada? Or better yet, both.

@2fue+1qVqEAwS

Interesting thought - CK has already stated that they are open to acquisitions to gain market in AI space, however doubt such an acquisition if it were to happen would be anywhere near the record breaking price of Concur or Qualtrics  and even these did little to move the needle on stock price.  Possible merger I could not see ( as long as Hasso and Dietmar have 12 % of the company - I don't see them giving up whatever  influence or control they have over the company they started) and also  depending on the specific circumstances the merger could require shareholder approval.

I also heard Dominik Asam's comments about our stock price  and  believe it was his attempt towards preparing for Renjen plan in 2024 to begin  major outsourcing project ( high cost >< low cost)  which will  drive cost reductions  and positively impact the stock price. 

 I took it that his message was more for the shareholders than the employees - and the market absolutely loved hearing from him on Jan 23 that we will let go of 8000 people,   because in just 10 days the stock price is up  almost  12%. .  

 Let us not all be fooled, I am sure Renjen and Asam are seeing very clearly what kind of news makes our stock price jump very, very quickly.   It's a shame that we lack real visionaries who know how to run a company  based on expansion instead of announcing cost cuts of  8000 ( or 12000 in 12 months - 10% of our entire workforce) they could be announcing a significant double digit increases profitability.

@2jpv+1qVqEAwS

5000 attendees to winners circle is a small fraction of the sales org.....are you serious????

Please gather facts and refrain from demeaning entire organizations. Only a small fraction of the sales team goes to Winner’s Circle, and there are often politics involved in who is selected, even if WC qualification requirements are met.

Criticizing organizations — sales, delivery, product, support, marketing, other — within SAP is not helpful to anyone. Organizations are interdependent and must all exist for mutual success.

I got a strong hunch from the last all hands, where Asam's sole focus was on increasing the share price, market cap and investor confidence at any cost.
That by end of this year of next year, they are planning to merge with a competitor or acquire a modest one to stay relevant. This has been a trend over the decades without any great enterprise product solutions coming from inside.

It becomes more and more apparent to me in my non-sales but revenue-generating activities that ALL middle management in SAP, regardless of board area, LoB, or discipline, are paid apologists for sales. Every day I hear from VP level “it really su-ks that sales gets away with….” Or “it su-ks that sales won’t take ownership of….” But hey, forced ranking and RTO will fix all of that, right?

Agree with the original post that the sales organization has way too much span of control over the entire enterprise. And when you look at the individuals themselves who are allegedly "Presidents" of various regions, all that is really necessary is just to look at their background and see what exactly qualifies these folks to assume such a position where they are supposed to lead an organization of some 20,000+employees ? The answer is absolutely nothing more than they have been involved with the Sales function vs having had to lead and hold accountable leaders from all functions.

The truth is that these so called Presidents, know nothing about Product Development, Technical applications, Programming, Finance operations, HR ,etc.... but yet they are in theory leading all of these functions - really??

As was said in the post, it is because we have such unqualified people from our Executive Board to all of the L1 positions that this company is on life support. Could not agree more, SAP knows absolutely nothing about finding qualified and competent leaders

If you truly think that 50m a year would not save a single job, then it must be true that sales is overcompensated. They point is that all teams are needed to make things work, yet the celebratory budget is restricted only to one team.

It’s the expectation of decency and operating as a team—being in the trenches together, not having a subset of folks on an annual lavish extravagant trip while others are being cut (3000 last year, another 8000 this year). It’s the understanding that there is no sales without delivery. It’s clear from reading comments here that there is no trust at SAP—does not sound like a leaders-eat-last type of organization.

What does attacking the sales team accomplish? What does attacking any team or function accomplish? This has become a petty forum for 12-year-olds.

If CK and the Executive Board members are in Hawaii, how bout we send them a RTO immediately note...!

Does anybody know if CK and the rest of the Executive Board will be at Winners Circle?

Some of them were there last year - their attendance would be the height of insolence !!

Let's just get to the bottom line. It is outrageous that we are sending some 5000 Sales people to Hawaii in the midst of laying of some 8000 others !

We did exactly the same thing last year when we laid off 4000 and sent another 5000 to Hawaii.

The budget for this extravaganza is 50MM - so we spent 100MM in the last two years alone just to "entertain" some sales people? How many jobs could have been saved by eliminating this event. To be clear, some of my ( and every other non sales person) merit increases and Bonus Payouts are diminished so as to pay for this. McDermott made this into a ridiculously expensive week long feast so as he could be seen as the pied piper of his sales organization.

If the sales folks were posting triple digit increases and I was seeing the benefit of such monetary payoffs, then I would say OK. But we are having layoffs because we are not posting the expected results and the team who is accountable to deliver sales results is not only not delivering, but they will all be in Hawaii celebrating while some 8000 others are getting cut.

How great is that!!

Talent at SAP walked out and was pushed out 5 years ago. What you see now is the result of the incompetence of CK to lead and to create a vision, and the abissmal leadership he implemented below him who all look like him, sound like him and are all „yes“ man. Those of us who left after decades with SAP watch the implosion that has been happening now for years with horror.

@1vso+1qVqEAwS

Appreciate your point of view and lauding the Sales organization. There would be absolutely no issue if the Sales people simply ran the Sales organization, but that is not the case at SAP. Every one of these so called Regional Presidents are completely invisible to the overall employee base - they are in place for just one reason, to help close out sales deals.

Having a sales quota of 20mm, 50mm, etc has zero bearing with respect to running and leading the overall organization. I have yet to see any Regional President get involved in any major decisions outside of the Sales org.

The Sales Board area was increased exponentially under McDermott and now occupies one of the largest HC's in the company and gets favoritism which other areas do not
( Hawaii anyone??). It's not being critical, but you should get familiar with this "SAP University" in Dublin, Calif. where we converted one of the Sybase buildings into classrooms for new Sales hires. Are you aware that the hotels putting up these college interns have presented significant claims for the damage done by these folks because of the misbehavior? Where is the SAP Regional Presidents? We are basically running a version of Animal house and these "kids' just out of college are pulling in six figure payroll and the rest of the company should not be offended by this?

I think when one Board Area wants to distinguish itself from the others and enjoy benefits and perks that are very questionable as to whether these are deserved, then there should be open criticism about it. I have dealt with our AE's, Presales, etc... and for sure some of these are good folks, but there are also others where the customers know more about our SW than they do.

I am sorry if it offends you, but the fact is that SAP is already a complicated company to lead given all of the independent areas which are housed in any given region and what is needed is a very experienced leader ( President, COO,....) capable of understanding what each of these teams actually does, how they can help them achieve their goals and supporting a solution to the various issues they encounter which require Senior Leadership involvement. The only team which has regular contact with these Regional Presidents is only the sales personnel themselves, everyone else has no contact. It is entirely a title meant to impress potential customers.

Having responsibility for some 20,000 Regional employees and engaging with them is not the job of a sales leader, but a true Business leader who has a record of success in performing such a role already - this we do not have.

Sales individual contributors are responsible for managing $MM annually; FLSMs and SLSMs are responsible for managing $100M (or more) annually. A regional GM manages $500M+ annually. Not saying that this is an absolute qualifier for being a C-level executive at SAP, but competent SAP sales team members have a solid grasp on financials. Beyond this, the best in sales were solution consultants earlier in their careers and have a decent grasp on the products they’re selling and deep knowledge of what it takes to implement SAP solutions. Many also have industry-specific experience.

It doesn’t help anyone to diminish others’ roles. Let’s not do that. ;)

CK was a controller. Not much better than a salesman.

CK was not a salesman.