is that p;ossible? Or gotta be buddies with the hiring manager to even be considered?
32 replies (most recent on top)
Many posters here have posted and commiserated about the Non-existent Internal Mobility BullSh!t that Sh!tibank keeps trying to sell.
The barriers to entry and standards are Lower for External Job Applicants at any Company-Employer. So you're better off Not wasting your time, effort and false hopes applying for Internal Jobs.
You'll get dozens, hundreds or even thousands of automated Rejection emails, something along the lines of:
Dear Job Applicant-Svcker:
We want to let you know that we won't be moving forward with your job application for the role of [ Insert Job Title & Requisition Number Here You Got Rejected For ].
But we're still very much interested in you and your internal development [ BullSh!t ], and we're very proud to have you on our team [ BullSh!t ].
We'd love for you to take a look at other job opportunities on our Career Mobility Fantasy Site to see if there's another position that might interest you.
Best regards,
Citi Global Talent Acquisition
But Citi has been paying Sh!t salaries and gradually reducing medical and pension benefits for years if not decades, even during the Non-famine years.
Just like BNY Mellon.
The only logical explanation is that Citi has No money and is financially unstable.
@1y3 except that at this moment there are no other pastures. When this happens the company feels safe doing what they do because most of the people can’t leave. When the situation reverts the company pays crazy money.
@1y0 That's true.
Why else would an employer not pay better salaries, medical and pension/401k benefits unless the employer has No money or is financially unstable ??
By not paying/giving better salaries, promotions and benefits, etc. the employer is risking its best employees will Quit the company and leave for greener pastures.
@1q1 You're right ! Any employer that has stagnant, stuck employees in a level and salary for more than 3 years is not only financially unstable (Citibank), but the employer is also an employer only for the Non-ambitious.
The Non-ambitious employees are the ones who've become inured to being exploited, abused or bought the BullSh!t that they're at the level and salary they're supposed to be.
And so, the employees simply accept being in the same low or no growth salary level.
Citibank is an employer for the Non-ambitious workers. It has De@d end jobs with De@d end salaries. Citibank's old commercial tagline: "The Citi never sleeps.......Sh!tibank!" .
@19g You're correct ! It's well known both inside and outside of Citi and it's a running joke that everyone in Citibank is a VP !
I LMFAO whenever I get emails announcing Employee-X was "promoted" from AVP to VP and to congratulate them ! LOL!
There should be a disclaimer or footnote at the bottom of these fake celebratory emails, "The new VP will now be stuck, stagnate as VP along with their Salaries for 5,10, or 15 years until the next In-Seat "Promotion" IF it even happens at all !" LOL!
It's well known both inside and outside of Citi that the employee structure is like a Top or Xmas Tree Ornament. The bulge or majority of employees are VPs. And VPs in Citi are the equivalent of Analyst / Associate / AVP in Real Banks like GS, JPMC, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Barclays. etc..
Citi VPs are infantilized, babied, treated and "supervised" as if they're only a few years out of college, compared to the Real Banks. Your work and projects are more like Analyst/Associate/AVP work and projects in the Real Banks
Take note, if you're Ins@ne enough to want a job in Citi and are a VP in GS, JPMC, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Barclays, apply for Director or MD jobs because VPs in the Real Banks are more like Directors/MDs in Citi.
@17h I don't think Citi had SVP roles a few years back. I believe the role was implemented in support functions and backoffices so that there could be a buffer position between a director and VP with more authority than a VP (everyone is a VP at Citi!) that can execute on behalf of the director
@18b In very few departments in JPMC, Not all departments. Also, the AVP and SVP titles are mostly found in JPMC's retail businesses and Tech. Not Wholesale, Investment Banking, Private Equity etc.
@17h JPMC has introduced SVP
I realize this is only tangentially related to this thread. I get daily Citi new job postings email alerts I've noticed that compared to last year, there are much fewer open reqs.
Also, the open reqs are 90% Director,VP,AVP and Non-Officer jobs, with very few if any SVP jobs.
Citi might indeed be getting rid of the SVP level as was rumored starting 2 years ago in order to flatten out the employee structure.
Take note, that JPMC, Morgan Stanley and other 1st tier financial institutions do Not have the SVP title/level. You go from VP to Director (or Executive Director) to MD.
Everyone, All Posters.
Only penurious, destitute and desperate employers pull the machinations and Bull$hit $hitibank is doing.
It's like digging through trash to find pennies, look for every excuse No matter how absurd or outlandish the excuses may be, to nickel, dime and penny employees. $hitibank hates its employees ! Don't you people see that ?
Some of the Bull$hit financially unstable $hitibank has been doing for the past 4 years (NOT all inclusive):
Zero or low salary increases and/or bonuses
Forced Performance Ratings of high performing employees (in a Normal company would be Rated 1s / 2s) into 3.
Forced Performance Ratings of high performing employees (in a Normal company would be Rated 1s / 2s / 3s) into 4 and give out vague excuses why the employee is a 4 and/or PIP material. Once you're on a PIP, statistics show employees have a 90% chance of getting Fired anyway because of the PIP.
PIPs are designed to setup the employees for eventual Firings since the Bar is very low for errors and the employer is keeping score, looking for any F@rt reason to Fire the employees. You so much as breathe left instead of right, and the employer will note that as an error and move you closer to getting Fired.
Very few In-seat promotions and/or moving up One-Level promotions (e.g. AVP to VP, VP to SVP, SVP to Director, etc.).
Reduced medical, pension/401k benefits and reduced matching.
Reduced vacation / PTO days, even for anniversary milestones (Tenure 5 years, 10 years, 15, 20 etc.)
by Anonymous Post ID: @ma+1k01n9v10
I have a slightly different take. If C14's and above are only gotten through internal networking and rarely do outsiders get a chance (yes, it's an assumption on my part), then how the heck will Citi get an outside perspective from people who have seen things at similar or slightly smaller banks? For example, Citi's consent order on risk and data is hardly unique -Wells has been hit for fraud (and lacksidal risk management), TD has been sh-t for AML, JP has been hit etc. You need at least some insiders with diverse (not to be con fused with DEI) experience with other financial institutes to change things or bring a new line of thought etc. Consultants, no matter the size of the SoW, can only do so much because a strategy roadmap can only do so much. Citi has tried consultants since 2020 and the clock hasn't ticked.
If there aren't people around to implement those roadmaps who've done this before, the 100 page deck is just going to be buried somewhere, only for a new strategy deck by another Big 4 or MBB (McKinsey, Bain, BCG) consultant to be prepared after 6 months of no progress. There's something to be said for institutional knowledge who know their way around but it should be a smart blend of insider+experienced outsider+consultants that will ultimately get this done. That has been my experience at other banks I've been to for consulting engagements(and yes, I'm a former MBB consultant myself) as well as tenured position at banks roughly the same size and complexity as Citi
@tz So the only way up is out of Sh!tibank because of the dearth of one-level up job postings ???
Since this IS TRUE, this is why excellent employees (yes, the ones who get Rated 1s and 2s) quit Sh!tibank. And then Sh!tibank is left with the incompetent, low caliber employees which is why Sh!tibank is drowning in monetary fines, Consent Orders and MRIAs.
And again, the MD / Director poster is trying to scaremonger and persuade Svckers to stagnate their salaries and career growth by doing lateral moves, SVP To SVP, VP to VP, etc.. for years.
Assume an average of Sh!tibank 2.5% annual salary increase, it will take you 6 years to reach the 15% increase you could have gotten immediately, if you went from AVP to VP, VP to SVP, etc. instead of doing the foolish lateral move. Or better yet, just quit Sh!tibank and you'll get at least a 20% salary increase because at every employer the standards and barriers to entry are lower for external job candidates.
A jump in level is going to be hard externally or internally. Can only happen through network or an open minded hiring manager who may not know you but you've so impressed him or her that they're willing to take a chance. But how many such people exist? Maybe 1 in 10 or 20
@tz if hiring managers for C14 and above will only hire someone known to them, then how would others even make a lateral move (C14 to C14 etc.) never mind jump a level?
Some of you act like a promotion is a right. It isn't. There are a ton of factors at play not the least of which is the availability of the actual position. Then there's leadership. Just because you can execute in your current role expertly, does not make you a leader or Sr management material. The ratio of C15s to C14 is minuscule and has to be approved at a very Sr level. Sure managers hire who they know. That's usually because who they know is a good fit for the position. The networking doesn't happen by accident. And a lot of that usually happens from other groups. Usually being benefitted by someone who has grown their network, shown they can execute in a variety of roles and conditions and a lot of that comes from a strategic lateral move. If you don't get promoted in your current role and have been in it for a few years, your options are to quit or move to another group. Some of you are so jaded and so wound up in how horribly this company is treating you that you can't get out of your own way and you have blinders to the opportunities for internal movement. I guarantee you, most people in 14 roles or above have moved around the company in several lateral moves to grow their network and experience. The odds of getting promoted in your current role are far worse than voluntarily moving internally.
Only promotion can happen if you are cosy with senior management or someone favorite.
@nw The Trim Bryan poster pointed out one of Sh!tibank's and HR's absurd "career growth" tactics ostensibly to "help" Svckers, errrr employees.
Stretch assignments/work. LMFAO!
The Trim Bryan poster articulated this extremely well. Stretch assignments mean doing free work for someone else so that maybe you can apply for the that person's job in the future. It's Bull Sh!t subterfuge.
It's a lottery ticket and doing free, more work for someone else, while you do Not get paid for it.
@dm MD / Director trying to persuade Svckers to do lateral moves instead of aiming to get one of dearth bread crumbs promotions. Nice try though. LOL!
No one in their right mind will or should do lateral moves (AVP to AVP, VP to VP, SVP To SVP etc.) for years and get zero or close to zero salary increases for the risk of having to learn a new job, processes, nuances, etc.. You may as well get paid the 15% increase for having to learn a new job by moving up one level, e.g. VP to SVP, etc..
For example, if you've been a VP for 3+ years and move laterally to another VP role in a different group/department, as another poster said you'll be resetting the clock back to zero as if you're a brand new hire VP. At most you'll get 3% annual salary increas, but we all know some employees get zero salary increases.
With an average of 2.5% annual salary increase, it will take you 6 years to reach the 15% increase you could have gotten immediately, if you went from VP to SVP instead of doing the foolish lateral move.
Anyone who's been doing lateral moves for "career growth", "increase knowledge base", or "networking" for Years is stagnating their own salary growth. This is foolish. You can get all of this by going from VP to SVP AND with a 15% salary increase. LOL!
With hard numbers for example, if your current salary is US$100,000, the next level up will bring you to US$115,000. Anyone who's willing to wait 6 years to get the extra $15,000 is foolish, gullible, or Br@!n De@d.
In Tech it’s almost impossible but in other sectors the opportunities seem to be more less rare but still challenging to achieve.
Hiring managers post reqs but the ridiculous automated rejections with no rejection detailed so you would know what to improve on to achieve the roles, suggests significant bias occuring and that the C15 roles are already targeted for a particular individual they have in their team already or someone else already slated for the role.
The C15 reqs are therefore not even really worth applying for, you might as well just wait for the tap on the shoulder to say, “hey, apply for this”.
Or just leave the company and go to a competitor.
@dm Concur and correct.
AS$H0LE "Managers" who promote incompetent A$$-LICKERS instead of outstanding RATED 1s /2s employees, and Citi HR are to blame.
They're A$$-LICKERS because they're NOT good at their jobs. So what else can they do ?And they have nothing else to leverage other than Svcking AS$ and being Yes men or women.
And so excellent employees either Quit $hitibank or engage in Quiet Quitting, doing the bare minimum work.
There are use cases for both sides of the argument. The use case for position bump is obvious enough - title, salary and growth. The one for lateral is more nuanced. For example, if the person has really contributed significantly, gone over and above what was required and still doesn't get promoted, then what's the point of staying in that group? Unbelievably, Sh1tty does have thse kinds of @sshat managers who don't promote the real doers but promote id--ts who kiss their rings. It's su1cidal to do this because the @ss kissers k1ss @a-s for a reason. Mostly because they're not good at their jobs. Punish the doers and eventually they will walk away, but @sshat managers don't care. They will manage upwards. A lateral move elsewhere, hopefully to a team that does recognize and reward great work, would make sense even if it delays the promotion by a year or two. Sure, you have to learn new processes, make new relationships etc. but it might be worthwhile. If not for the long term, at least in the interim till something better comes along either at Sh1tty or elsewhere
The real people to blame in such situations is HR. If a person is getting 2's and 1's and still not promoted then what was the performance review for? HR should ask the manager why is that person not being promoted..what's the holdup? Headcount?Something else? Because that doer is also wondering the same thing - what else do I need to do to get promoted? I'm getting 2's and 1's and stuck at my level while the average Joe gets promoted by ring k1ssing
In Sh!tibank employees who do lateral moves, VP to VP, SVP To SVP etc. for years are getting zero or close to zero salary increases for the risk of having to learn a new job, processes, nuances, etc..
In Sh!tibank if you move up one level instead of lateral you'll get a 15% salary increase.
Anyone who's been doing lateral moves for "career growth", "increae knowledge base", or "networking" for Years is stagnating their own salary growth.
This is foolish.
For a 14 and above you almost certainly have to network and know the hiring manager as well as the team. This is often why lateral moves pay off. It grows your network, it grows your knowledge base and it shows you're not a one trick pony.
Fingers crossed this SVP ends up with a D, so the seat becomes available.
Some interesting points raised on lateral move. Of late, have considered and applied for C14 roles outside of my group that are similar to work I've been doing within my group but no dice. Not even an interview. Either silence or a rejection. Maybe even for lateral C14 moves, gotta know the hiring manager? Else forget it
If your main goal is getting a promotion and climbing the corporate ladder without being open to lateral moves, learning more, growing your network, becoming a subject matter expert and personal growth, then you are perfect for senior management at citi.
Internal department promotions are almost unheard of. Mainly because teams run so lean (do more with less) that the jobs simply aren't there. Your C15 manager would have to die or leave in order for a spot to be open then re-orgs happen instead of backfills to promote "do more with less". Even if a spot opened, it's already been discussed with the C16s and above. They'll post but probably already know who they want. Best way to get a C15 is network with people outside your group that have a spot open. And if you're not open to a lateral move then you've really painted yourself in a corner. I've taken lots of laterals over the years that have eventually lead to growth and promotions. You gotta read the landscape. You shouldn't really stay in the same job more than 3-4 years anyway. It shows lack of ambition and really stalls your career.
looks like u're not a c14 when u asked such silly and naive question. Your mindset doesn't deserve a c15 even current c14. You're not qualified to play card on the table
@ax Because in Sh!tibank in-seat promotions are practically Non-existent.
At most 20% of the population will get in-seat promotions in any year.
And the media reported that this year Sh!tibank promoted in-seat only 8% of employees.
Only financially unstable companies do this and are willing to take the risk that high performing employees will Quit Sh!tibank or engage in Quiet Quitting = Doing the bare minimum work& effort.
In Sh!tibank Not all employees who get Rated 1s / 2s or even All 1s will get in-seat promotions. The media and most employees are aware of this.
@an Thanks for the reply. You're probably right, but I don't get the reasoning though - for example, as a C14 why would I be interested in another C14 position where the clock will be reset back by at least 2-3 years, I will have to prove all over again etc. I would rather move out of Citi to do that if I wasn't getting promoted as a C14 in my present group. C15 would face the same dilemna..right? Unless some extraneous circumstances like job eliminated etc...that would be a small %
Why not give a chance to a strong C14 with 1's and 2's in ratings who perhaps isn't getting promoted in the current position for reasons beyond his/her control?
It’s very difficult. Most hiring managers prefer to hire other C15’s. Need your MD support and try for in seat promo.