Someone mentioned that HR clarified that if retirement eligible folks don’t take the voluntary package they are still considered for layoffs but then not eligible for severance allowance? In the FAQ’s section it specifically states they are not eligible for involuntary layoffs. Can someone with documented knowledge please clarify? I don’t want to get screwed because the FAQ was vague and/or shady and open to interpretation by the company.
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@euh - that's basically what I (@dym) inferred - you can be terminated at any time and if not, don't expect your boss to do you any favors next year (i.e. you will be NSI'd in the ranking cycle)
so it's pretty simple, see.
@1jrh Exactly. Its only discrimination if all the employees are evaluated equally for involuntary separation. The only way it’s not discrimination is when everyone our age gets a pass! It’s so hard being us, we deserve special treatment (safe space)! Why doesn’t he get it, it’s so simple ...
Oh man, I get it now! If they terminate people in MY age group it’s NOT discrimination. If they terminate people in YOUR age group it IS discrimination.
How could I have been such an id–t to think that targeting a specific age group for terminations was THE DEFINITION of age discrimination?? Silly me.
@1amg+17HalHSl It does make sense. But I am not surprised you don't get it. I knew when I put it out there that it would not be simple enough for some people to comprehend. Read it again and try using your brain this time.
And don't be too quick to hate older employees. Remember some day you will be older too. Age discrimination is the only type of discrimination where the biased haters will join the group they hate some day. You will grow older. Then you will feel differently.
@1qyi. It sounds like you think being placed into the involuntary separation process is “discrimination”. It’s not, and your argument makes zero sense.
@1qyi – Agree. The antidote to discrimination isn't more discrimination.
Contrary to what people like Ibram X. Kendi say ("The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.").
@1eut+17HalHSl So your are for discrimination. In your mind it is fine to discriminate against people because of their age, because you are safe since you are younger. And if they don't discriminate against older people, then that means it's discrimination against you.
By your logic they should discriminate against people of color, so white people can benefit. And if they don't discriminate against people of color, then that is discrimination against whites. By your logic they should discriminate against women, so men can benefit. And if they don't discriminate against women, then that is discrimination against men. And on and on.
Law of the jungle. Someone else must be sacrificed so you can survive. No problem as long as you are not the victim. Hope you are proud of yourself.
You are eligible for another PIP
How is not putting RE employees in the involuntary bucket not age discrimination against the younger employees?
I disagree. There is the real risk that retirement eligible are MLRP'D
@hxg+17HalHSl - Incorrect.
I passed PIP, have 30 yrs and am retirement eligible. I'm NOT eligible for Involuntary.
I wish I was.
First, there is no real incentive to take the voluntary program unless you are 59 1/2+ years old and already planning to retire next year.
Second, if you do not take the voluntary program then you are not going to be included in the involuntary program (4 weeks salary per year of service, maxxing out at 52 weeks).
Third, ineligible for the involuntary program does NOT mean that you are safe (if you declined the voluntary program). You can be threatened with termination and therefore forced to retire with no incentives.
Lastly, if are retirement eligible and still with the company after the November-January layoff, don't expect your boss to do you any favors when it comes to the next ranking cycle.
fan+17HalHSl
PIP'd and forced into retirement. Also comes with penalty to when employee can access pension
What does MLRP mean?
Clearly the people that visit this site are unable to read. People who pass pip are eligible for the involuntary program.
If you choose not to take the voluntary package, you are safe from the involuntary. But I guarantee you that you are not safe from MLRP during next years assessment. If the company wants you out, they will force you out.
I was told the RE that did not elect to retire with the package were not part of the involuntary. Maybe after so many that are eligible take the package, they just want to keep a few knowledgeable people around To guide the new hires that They will need when business picks up.
Confirmed. If you are eligible for retirement and do not choose to take the voluntary package, you will not be eligible for the non-voluntary separation benefits. The employee may be laid off without any severance.
Employees that joined the company after October 2019 and the ones that pass PIP are not eligible for the involuntary layoff. Does it mean that they are safe at the second round or maybe they can still get layed off but without the severance package??
If you are eligible for retirement and do not choose to take the voluntary package, you will NOT fall into the Non-voluntary group. If they started letting go of Retirement age work force they would open themselves up to age discrimination class action law suit. That is why the people who are within 3 years of being retirement eligible are not being put into the Non-voluntary grouping.
@lmh+17HalHSl Was this confirmed by HR?
I was wondering the same thing. I was under the impression that RE and NRE would not be part of the lay off program, UNLESS we voluntary decide to leave the company. If what you are saying is true, then this is very deceptive on the part of EM because I believe many folks thought what we both believed, until I started to read otherwise on this site.
Fo retirement-eligible employees, there are only 2 options.
Yes, you’d be forced to retire...not part of the “involuntary layoff “ with severance just retirement with no additional severance. So there’s “voluntary layoff “, “ involuntary layoff with severance” and then forced out with no severance.