Thread regarding Juniper Networks Inc. layoffs

Highly Unlikely!

I was actually recruiting at Uber before I came to Juniper. Also, I’ve been recruiting for longer than most of my friends. Spent almost my entire career in recruiting - and have recruited across several companies - large, mid-size and small. All I can tell you is what I have seen first hand. Not sure what the source of your information is however. Please also remember that those 350K comps often have large stock components - which don’t always fully get vested. Most Bay Area companies will have HR stats which tell us that a high number of people leave before all of it vests. Over my career, I’ve also seen stock values slide to the point that your RSUs won’t equate to the large amount that they were worth when one joins the company. And that happens more often than you’d imagine.

Just my two cents having done recruiting for a lifetime in the valley. You are free to have your own opinion and I respect that.

Most likely you were a recruiter for embedded companies like Cisco, Juniper. Have you spoken to your recruiter friends in top software companies like FAANG, Uber, Stripe etc? Look at levels.fyi if you do not believe me for comp reference. 8-9 yrs exp is easily L5 level in G, F kind of companies. As someone mentioned below $350K in such companies is meh pay. Top engineers make over $500K, but these are top 10% of engineers in G, F kind of companies.

I’m an engineering recruiter. I worked at Juniper briefly before I left - since we relocated out of state. Negotiating comp packages is part of my role and having recruited for years in the Bay Area with companies other than Juniper as well, I would simply say that $350K for an engineer with 8-9 years of experience is not super common. Sure, it’s possible. But it certainly is not the norm or even the average. For that experience range in a software company in the valley, you’re looking at $230-250K as an average inclusive of base+bonus+RSU. The $350K people do exist but they are outliers.

0%

For the people that read this board, 99% are likely already looking.

folks

Folks who claim RSUs are keeping them in Juniper, how much unvested RSUs you have? I was Sr. Staff Eng and was making $25K-$30K per year in RSUs. This is nothing since Bay Area software companies hand out $400K-$600K worth RSUs (vested over 4 yrs) as part of the offer. I never thought about unvested Juniper RSUs while quitting since it was negligible relative to the offer I got.

Hey, btw, RSUs should never, EVER lock you in to a company

Any job offer will comp you your RSU tranche with similar vesting dates as your Juniper schedule--this is in addition to the job offer which provides another set of RSUs.

So this excuse to not leave Juniper because of RSUs is WEAK sauce!

People, listen to @ZvzfH8a-9ofz's advice. He knows what he's talking about, b/c I'm living proof of it too!

In order to ramp up your pay, leave hardware permanently--hardware is dead man walking when it comes to pay (unless you can make Exec rank). Ramp up on your software skills instead. Everyone uses Leetcode for a reason b/c they're a compilation of actual questions asked in FANG/etc interviews and any generalist techie can adapt well enough to the framework. Even if you're weak in software, a good 6 months prep in the right direction can get the train rolling to the goal.

And as others have said, it doesn't need to be the high paying FANG which comp $500k-$1m+ for experienced engineers. Any respected non-hardware company worth it's salt KNOWS it has to pay extremely well to compete with the big boys, so even $350k can be considered "meh" or "basic" package. But this still BLOWS AWAY anything Juniper can offer a "minion" engineer, LOL! Couple this with annual raises of 5%+ and $100k+ RSU refreshes every year and you can get close to $500k without breaking a sweat! Oh yeah, and regular systematic Promotions to boot! Then throw in realistic RSU stock appreciation which can potentially add over $50k-100k+ gain/year on the overall RSU package!

Reading this board, I do sense laziness/apathy. I get the sense that people are riding the paycheck until layoff--which is foolish. When you're laid off, you have to scramble to ramp up your skills which takes 6+ months minimum....Orrr you desperately take the next job with similar or lower pay that comes along. Thus, never advancing your pay/title/career.

For me, I truly busted my back for a similar 6 months of slog prep. I gained weight sacrificing have fun in the sun for prep. Weekends/weekday nights. Didn't matter. I was proactive and goal oriented. But the positive result gave me "game/life changing" fruit! And I'm already getting hit up at prestigious Startups, meeting the CEO and such! Crazy!

You can do the same. But don't put yourself down that you ain't capable for that "golden tier" of company. You have to "game" the interview like an SAT test. Many who pass have the "imposter syndrome" when joining, but eventually you adapt and hang on to the speed. But you have to adapt well to drink from the firehose they make you drink from so you must work HARD at the beginning or they will PIP you, LOL, but there really is no reason for that to happen!

First step's first. Prep and don't be afraid--engineer your destiny! If you're lazy and comfortable, I hope you understand the IF/THEN scenario template in front of you. If you have a spouse that works and can swing the mortgage/lifestyle, then consider yourself lucky. Still, the economy can turn and your SOOL for that next move after one of the regular Juniper layoffs. STILL.....Why wait when in 5 years of FANG/etc in total comp is MILLIONS in cumulative net difference to your old hardware pay!

Remember that October time frame is looming and you can bet the stealth layoffs and larger layoffs will happen the next coming months. Winter is coming, so don't get plowed over! Make preparations to the battlements! Good luck!

P.S. DON'T BE LAZY!!! Prepare as if your life depended on it. And PRAY for manifestation!

Skill sets which you list would definitely help in pulling in $350K salaries, however it is not mandatory. It is very difficult to have such skills working in companies like Juniper. I did not have any of these skills but managed to rope in such a job. Here is what I did -

• Brush up "Introduction to Algorithms" by Thomas Cormen

• Read up "Cracking the Coding Interview" by G--le Laakman

• Go to leetcode.com and practice Medium level questions. If your aim is FAANG level companies, need to practice Hard questions too.

• Read up on Distributed Systems in online blogs, youtube videos

This took me 6 months and I gave around 15-20 hrs per week. It is hard to give so much time with a full time job and a family, but I consider it as an investment for the future. Apart from these high salaries, these companies offer much better work environment and an opportunity to improve skill sets. IMO, 6 month investment is worth it.

Someone mentioned below about Cisco turning around and Juniper could do so too. Cisco has definitely turned around, its stock has doubled in the last 3 years. However, how many of ICs in Cisco are making $350K. Pretty unlikely a IC level person in Cisco would make $350K. So, even in the unlikely event that Juniper does turn around, it is not possible for IC compensation to reach $350K. In Bay area software companies (not embedded companies), $350K is pretty much the going market rate for eng with 8-10 yrs exp.

What skill sets are pulling in $350k salaries?

AI/ML?

Full stack for IoT?

Cloud platforms, AWS, GCP, Azhure, Alibaba, Tencent etc?

$350K salaries are not the norm in networking companies like Cisco, Arista, Extreme etc. However, $350K is the norm in software companies in Bay Area for senior eng with 8-10 yrs exp. If you are a software eng in Juniper, why restrict yourself to networking companies.

It seems that there is a large number of people posting onto this forum trying to convince people to leave Juniper for other companies in the Bay Area. Talking about how bad things are and how easy it is to get high $350k compensations. It is not unless you fit a certain skill set / age / race / social profile. Yes it it's true that there are such opportunities even besides the likes of FAANG, but such high paying jobs are not the norm in the networking industry. Many years about Cisco was going downhill, but have since reinvented itself. Can Juniper do the same? I believe the chances are small but still possible. The next 2 to 3 years will be critical given current market conditions.

@ZvzfH8a-9peb: What is the range as per you? My comments were specifically for engineers in the Bay area (I mentioned this clearly in my post). I have no knowledge of salaries in Midwest etc, but do know that options outside Bay Area are limited.

@ZvzfH8a-8yoc The range is wider than what you indicate. If you don't live in the bay area, roughly subtract 50k to 70k and your range is somewhat accurate. For the rest of us who don't work in the bay area (e.g. living in the midwest) and have no interest in relocating, our options are more limited.

My salary comments are getting downvoted, wonder if Juniper managers are downvoting. Just to be clear, Staff/Sr. Staff eng in Juniper make around $200K-$250K p.a (base+bonus+RSU). These engineers should be able to get reasonably senior positions in Bay area software companies. Market rate for such engineers is $350K. So, this is where the $100K-$150K salary difference comes from.

Please note you do not need to join G, FB kind of companies to make $350K, lots of other companies pay in the same range. G, FB also pay $350K, but in addition they pay huge sign-on bonuses + unreasonably good perks. Also, G, FB have excellent RSU refreshers which can bump TC lot more than $350 with 2-3 yrs of consistently good performance.

On top of these high salaries, you can get much better work environment, better work, stronger resume, chance to improve skill sets etc.

Given all this, I see no reason to stay in Juniper if you are an engineer in Bay Area.

Do East Coast companies pay that bad? 2 offers, one same as Juniper and one lower is puzzling to me. I moved out 2 yrs ago with comp $100K more than Juniper (base+bonus+RSU). This was not in G, FB type companies. In Bay Area, it is very easy to get $100-$150K bump from what Juniper pays, mainly due to RSUs. Only caveat is that you should be able to pass the grueling leetcode style interviews.

I decided to move out 6 months ago after spending 2 years in the shipwreck. The bonuses were great and I have $10K in RSU - not a lot for Bay Area, but considerable amount for East Coast. Albeit, not enough to see the writing on the wall.

I am entertaining two offers - one same as JNPR compensation, one slightly lower but has the potential to make what I can of it in a year or two.

Very

I too tried in FAANG and failed miserably when I was in Juniper. Then I tried lower tier companies where the bar is lower. Initial offer wasn't too good but slightly beat Juniper comp. Combination of stock appreciation and RSU refresh has resulted in my RSU comp of $100K per year, which is a far cry from what I could have made in Juniper.

In Bay Area, I see absolutely no reason to work for Juniper. There are so many opportunities (apart from biggies like G, FB) where you could make lot more than Juniper. Also, what I have observed that if you perform well, you will get rewarded in other companies unlike Juniper where a$$ licking is given high weightage.

Yes you can get paid RSUs equivalent to your salary at places like FB and Google in the Bay Area, but not many of us would get hired by these companies! I've tried. The alternative is to work for financial companies where the salaries and bonuses are super high as well. For those of use who don't work in the Bay Area or cannot get hired by FB and Google, I'm guess Juniper is still a decent company to work for.

Juniper gives very little RSUs for ICs. In Bay Area, you can make $100K-$150K per year in RSUs in good software companies. What you make in RSUs in Juniper is nowhere close.

staying due to RSUs!

very likely have RSUs :)

Zero! Actively looking while Juniper pays me to pretend to work. Sorry RR, but true. You have run this company into the ground and I am using you and Juniper's money to find my next role

Zero likelihood

What is keeping you in Juniper? If you are in engineering, any place is better than Juniper. Just move out ASAP, you will not regret.

Well I said last year there was no way I'd still be at juniper this year, so.....