Thread regarding Verizon Communications Inc. layoffs

@mnf Aim small? The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Boeing engineers and all, SAG and the various other Hollywood unions, the majority of the nations police and fire departments, most teachers and countless other employees have contracts. VZ even has contracts with somewhere near 40K of its employees. Are all these people aiming small by choosing to work with a legally binding defined work agreement. I wise person might say aiming small is choosing to be employed in a circumstance with no say and arbitrary conditions.

The facebook issues have problems due their being false news and political rantings. The talk here of the amorality of the corporate construct is merely a description of one of its core characteristics. There is no ranting just a logical discussion about an element of modern life, what impact it has upon society and how some of its problematic traits can be countered or at least tempered. For example to collectively bargain with or lobby for laws to limit its powers or set a reasonable baseline of acceptable circumstances such minimum wage laws, child laws, Overtime standards, health standards etc. With out a check on its power corporations like a rogue computer program will do anything within the law (which it will skirt to its best ability) to maximize profit for its share owners for by definition it serves no other purpose. The only things that will keep a corporation in check are pressure from public opinion which could God forbid hurt profits, firm law meaning ones with consequences greater than what is to be gained by flouting them and lastly but under the umbrella of law collective bargaining. This does not make corporations bad they serve great purpose and allow capital to achieve some wonderful things likely unable to otherwise occur, however society must beware. Fire is a wonderful thing as well it heats homes inside a motor it powers modern vehicles and is beautiful in a nice fireplace however an uncontrolled fire can destroy a landscape and maim or kill all within its path for it is doing what it simply does which is to burn.

I wonder if the SCOTUS hearing the Facebook case where 100s of accounts are deleted that don't conform to their political views.

Perhaps that would apply here- but probably not due to the anonymous nature.

@ EBR The national taxi workers alliance is not a union with collective bargaining right it was merely an alliance. The employment in the driving industry is pathetic due to the fact it is almost entirely non-union at this stage in history. It is a very good example of how low employment standards can go without some force to battle against the corporation.

Along with the ones who didn’t label anyone, but contained unpopular points of view. Guess we got too uppity, assuming air’s beyond our place in the social hierarchy.

All name calling posts are gone. Good job, site admins #admin

Corporations exist in a society, and a commuity of people. It’s the abandonment of the understanding that corperate governance has stakeholders as well as shareholders that is wreaking some havoc on our societies and communities. Many institutional investors hold stocks less than a year now. If the pendulum stays too far as it has, swung to shareholder profits only, societies will pull them back to center, hopefully. I find it particularly interesting that a company like vz that serves and makes its profits from local communities seem to have very little connection to those communities when it relates to their employee policies. Right now, it’s feeling like a race to the bottom for many employees while a few elites take the spoils.

In before Maritime Law and STRAWMAN arguments surface.

@phm you are incorrect in attaching the corporations legal duty to protect the assets of the shareholders with a moral choice as if it where a human. The very roots of what a corporation is is an entity to make and preserve/protect owner assets. These characteristics are its very essence. There is no good or evil, bad or good to this just its very purpose and reason to exist. These characteristics can be used for both good or bad and might be good or bad depending on ones relationship or circumstances at hand regarding any such entity. You too do not understand what amorality even is it seems. Research it the word maybe even philosophy and ethics it might make you a bit less ignorant.

I was "special enough" to get a contract. I don't feel I have aimed small. I earn more than most less than some. Some make a bit more. Some make a lot more. What can you do? Maybe they are just better than me or they have more ambition. Am I better than most? Will we ever know?

Not the OP here but this post does hit the nail on the head. In reference to the individual with his imagined 12 people corporation your statement of how you choose to run your operation in no way redefines what a corporation is, just how You choose to run it. You also may not be fully aware of what amorality is. It is the absence of morals not immorality which you may be mixing it up with. They are two very different things.

Op, if corporations are amoral, defined as lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something., why are they duty-bound to protect the interests of their stockholders? Why not just screw them?

BTW, we’ve all seen moral and immoral corporations as well.

Corporations are what the choose to be.

Our credo exemplifies our morality. Read it! Would an amoral entity be bound to and live by those self-imposed mandates?

Of course not!

Not necessarily

A corporation is amoral by definition.

Many companies are run in a very ethical and moral fashion. I know because I own one, it's a small business with 12 people but still.

Good luck all

If you're seeking morality start your own non-profit to make pandas fsck. The adage in my group was "Verizon is a .com not a .org" the basic unit of any economy is the transaction - see Ray Dalio - How the economic machine works on YouTube for a basic primer. Collective bargaining is not a replacement for knowledge or a personal code of ethics. Unions are dead - ask any member of the National Taxi Workers Alliance.

" If one wants more than these bare minimums they need to bargain collectively."

Or be "special" enough to get a contract, such as the CEO and senior execs. Depends if one is willing to aim small!